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Zero-K v1.1.1.1 & Bombard Commander

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11 years ago
quote:


quote:
And if I press "attack" and pick a target, what happens?

Even better: you press attack and drag. What does the red circle do?



Imo those are the reasons to go back to old keys.
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Breaking up the attack and bombard and fight commands into 3 separate commands (instead of the present 2) would be the most sensible thing for, imho... "fight" would sport the current behavior, "attack" would be "fight but if you click a unit or you drag it works as attack" and "bombard" would be always force-firing at ground regardless of what stands on the spot, and would give you a way to drag-bombard areas without fiddling with alt-keys and whatnot (see wolverine lines).

Alternately you could completely combine "fight" and "attack target" into the attack command and leave the "force fire/bombard" on the f-key - but then you need little "alt" things to reconcile that both "attack everything in the selected area" and "customformations attack-move" are bound to the same command. Otherwise? It's "attack-move if I click ground, attack if I click a target" like in StarCraft. The drag behavior is the trick.

But that kind of massive change wouldn't be as backwards-compatible for old players and might require engine changes.
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Skasi
Units don't Attack Move when fighting, Licho. They dodge, retreat to stay at range, etc. You can't tell me that retreating is the same as attacking.

MauranKilom, there are plenty of games where A makes units attack ground. This is the reason why you have to ignore what other games do. They are all different. We have to make it the right way and that is making hotkeys as easy to guess as possible, which it is once you read "Fight".
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11 years ago
current is fine, no changes required except an area attack (that is implemented without breaking current system)
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Skasi
11 years ago
Alt+A for area attack, 1v0ry.
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11 years ago
Saw it for a while. Must've been fixing it if it was LV250 for a while, eh? Anyway, new ACU to upgrade my iPod ACU to an iPad ACU!
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quote:
why nerf the battle commander?

It was annoying for one unit to have DPS and HP (and have the oppurtunity to be mega-HP artillery), also known as the Sumo Problem. So we* made it more specialized; it wasn't our intent to nerf it per se, but that's how it turned out.

Could give it HP buff (or autoheal buff, which Sphiloth originally proposed for Strike Comm) to compensate if needed.

*we being me and Sak
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11 years ago
great, now that just leaves the Sumo (which is OP btw)
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11 years ago
Strike com sux now without the range bonus, while the 10% speed bonus it gets on level 5 is barely noticable if at all.
On the other hand 30% range bonus on level 5 Bombard Com seems a little OP.
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Skasi
11 years ago
Do range upgrades even decrease accuracy?
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11 years ago
quote:
Do range upgrades even decrease accuracy?

Nope, why would they? I fully expect my 225% range beamlaser comm to perfectly snipe gnats and ticks at max range.
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FIrankFFC
11 years ago
dosent shogun lose accuraty at range
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11 years ago
I don't think anyone actually presses attack and picks a target, because the default action is attack, so pressing the button is redundant. The only time you'd want to do this is when you want to attack an ally, where 'force fire' makes way more sense.

I don't know that people use attack and drag that much either, I generally just use an enemy unit as my mid point, but I can see cases where you might want to do this.

As for minimap, Muran is wrong there, our way is vastly superior. You use the same buttons for the minimap as you do the main screen (mid button is camera), which makes sense since the minimap is just a zoomed out view.

I've seen people attack ground when trying to fight. I'd also like to take a look at other games default zoom direction (this always catches me up where I find myself zooming the wrong way in Zero-K). Another thing that's always bothered me is that when you are moving a unit, the left mouse button selects/cancels selection and the right mouse button orders, while when you are building the left mouse button orders and the right mouse button selects/cancels (I remember my brother complaining about constantly cancelling his building orders by mistake and vaguely remember doing the same thing myself when I first started).
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11 years ago
Buildings are placed with the left mouse button in almost all RTS. It is consistent with non-context related commands. To create a patrol I select the patrol command and left click to place it, right click cancels.
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11 years ago
Attack + alt + drag: Napalm Bombers

Attack + drag: 200-300 Avengers
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quote:
I remember my brother complaining about constantly cancelling his building orders by mistake and vaguely remember doing the same thing myself when I first started

Westwood style. But there is no Westwood anymore, so no worries. Starcraft, the survivor and the fittest, does the same as ta/zk/spring - lmb for selection and specific stuff, right for contextual order.

quote:
I'd also like to take a look at other games default zoom direction (this always catches me up where I find myself zooming the wrong way in Zero-K).

It seems, Spring is one of those games. I mean, when i tried playing ZK on Windows with ZKL, i was startled by the suddenly inverse zoom.

quote:
Attack + drag: 200-300 Avengers

Any high-priority fast targets anyway. Like, that roach that runs into your units while they are occupied shooting a solar. If you try to rightclick it, you're toast.
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11 years ago
quote:

Any high-priority fast targets anyway. Like, that roach that runs into your units while they are occupied shooting a solar. If you try to rightclick it, you're toast.


I see your point. That's a very good reason to use that feature.
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11 years ago
AUrankAdminSaktoth - I use the attack+drag command with defending against raiders often - attack + drag is less prone to "missing" when I'm giving a target-selecting order. Naked attack is more likely to be "oops, attack ground" because I missed a fast-moving unit, and naked rclick might be a move instead of atatcking the target. Best to play it safe and drag a box.
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Skasi
11 years ago
quote:
Nope, why would they? I fully expect my 225% range beamlaser comm to perfectly snipe gnats and ticks at max range.

Uh. Sure, catapult at max range should be just as accurate as at min range too!
If bad accuracy is multiplied with range then lasers would be super accurate at any range, nub.
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11 years ago
quote:
Uh. Sure, catapult at max range should be just as accurate as at min range too!

Uh-oh, somebody is mixing up accuracy and distribution, tsk tsk.
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