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Title: Tourney Group L
Host: CZrankSpringiee14
Game version: Zero-K v1.3.1.18
Engine version: 91.0
Battle ID: 328097
Started: 9 years ago
Duration: 14 minutes
Players: 2
Bots: False
Mission: False
Rating: Competitive
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Team 1
Chance of victory: 15.5%

AUrankAdminGoogleFrog
Team 2
Chance of victory: 84.5%

SErank[Er0]Godde

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9 years ago
Casted on Youtube for the January 2015 1v1 tournament.

Finals, Game 2
+1 / -0
9 years ago
I made a "unit hardcounter" chart for this jumpy mirror match.
+1 / -0
Puppy flat up hardcounters a Pyro unless it skirms. So it's a micro matchup. Placeholders don't have the AoE to stop a big bunch of puppies.

Pyro only loses to moderators if the moderators have room to kite or have local superiority. Moderator costs more and takes 2 shots to kill Pyro, so in an even matchup, they should be able to close range.

Placeholder and Moderator does not lose to skuttle because skuttle costs more! These units also rarely clump. Skuttle is also barely an even trade with Jack, unless you can get two.
+2 / -0
AUrankAdminSaktoth this matchup was determining empirical ability to counter; accounting for micro skill is unfeasible.

-Pyro counters Puppy as Pyro will skirmish away, and any puppies chasing the pyro will naturally clump and all die from the fire. Pyro will always make cost against puppies, regardless of the pyro's survival.

-Placeholder does no damage, so its ability to make cost is determined by how likely it will disable enough enemy metal to "make cost" in at least one of its attacks. Units that can escape the black hole automatically "counter" Placeholder under this definition.
+0 / -0
FIrankFFC
9 years ago
Autowar how come skuttle not hardcounter FW or sumo
+0 / -0
USrankAutoWar
quote:
accounting for micro skill is unfeasible

You should assume both parties are micromanaging their units decently otherwise the chart will be meaningless. Some units like Skuttle or Scorcher are completely useless unless carefully micromanaged.

quote:
Pyro counters Puppy as Pyro will skirmish away, and any puppies chasing the pyro will naturally clump and all die from the fire.

That might be so in theory, but in practice Puppies often beat Pyros for cost. I don't think one counters the other, it's a micro matchup.

quote:
Pyro will always make cost against puppies, regardless of the pyro's survival.

2 Puppies are capable of killing a Pyro and cost a maximum of 100m (could also cost nothing due to being bred from wrecks on enemy territory). A Pyro costs 220m. So how exactly does Pyro always make cost?

And yeah, suicide units are completely worthless against units that cost more than they do. So Skuttle gets hard countered by units like Moderator and Placeholder. Keep in mind it also eats up a lot of energy, decloaks fairly easily and has a lot of damage falloff so it's probably pretty bad against Jack as well.
+0 / -0