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Gameplay trailer

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CHrankAdminDeinFreund
3 months ago
(edited 3 months ago)

I wanna make train factory kernel panic zero-k trailer.

Features:
  • No longer than one minute
  • Show Gameplay[/User interface
  • Attention grabbing
  • Endgame/Striders?
  • Terraforming

Should I change my priorities?

Here's my current WIP:


Some accidental screenshots:


+24 / -0


AUrankAquanim
3 months ago
(edited 3 months ago)

I think I preferred it without the Detriment. The previous video was a plausible path which a game could take, complete with the comeback, which I found more appealing. The Sumo felt epic in that video - here it feels like a letdown after the Scorpion/Detri fireworks display.

I'm not sure how hard these things are to do, but I'd consider making a second video with less narrative structure but more shock-and-awe; the Detriment fight would not feel out of place in the context of massive bombing runs, tank slugfests, etc.

[Spoiler]

I am not sure where the music came from, have you checked the license, etc?

just in case the (hopefully) constructive criticism above is misleading, I think this is excellent
+2 / -0


CHrankAdminDeinFreund
3 months ago
That's what I was wondering, I'd like to have it follow some progression, but at the same time everybody wants to see detri and shiny. Do you think it can work without?

Music is cc-by, I will include it together with the zklogo at the end probably.
+0 / -0


ILrankAdminhokomoko
3 months ago
Great stuff:
* Kernel Panic
* Scene choice
* Map choice
* Music

[Spoiler]

+3 / -0


AUrankAquanim
3 months ago
(edited 3 months ago)

I think the "telling a story" aspect is enough to compensate for an arguable deficiency in shiny.

For that matter, to somebody who doesn't know anything about the game, the battle on top of the "temple" and the sumo jump are pretty shiny already. Detriment is a lot less scary if you haven't tried to kill one before.

[Spoiler]
+0 / -0


USrankaeonios
3 months ago
quote:
I remember somebody once had a video where the planet which the battle was taking place on zoomed out into the ZK logo; I imagine that would be very technically difficult to do well, but it would place on an "everything I ever wanted" wishlist


I believe that "somebody" was CHrankAdminDeinFreund . :P For that matter I think the ZK planet battle intro should be a requirement for any new ZK trailer.
+0 / -0


AUrankAquanim
3 months ago
It could well have been, too.
+0 / -0


CHrankAdminDeinFreund
3 months ago
(edited 3 months ago)

ILrankAdminhokomoko
  • If it's a gameplay trailer it must have default widgets on. You seem to be using unit shapes, some damage thingy and other stuff which will cause an immediate "Hey, this isn't what I saw on the video".
Different UIs are as much a part of zk as different maps :P I think this matters more if it's Shadowfury's UI introduction or an interface feature trailer.

  • The pathing thing before the sumo jump is an incredibly confusing green flash.
Unfeatured.

  • Commander walking and plopping on start looked laggy (???) and didn't seem to have a point, the cut on second 22 looks like a glitch. Try to follow the 30 degree rule
Removed the "glitch shot", plopping now at full speed to avoid lag.

  • Sumo landing was really underwhelming for 2 reasons - Barely any units died and since explosion speed in ZK is hideously slow, the timing seems off. I'm 100% sure #1 can be fixed. Not entirely sure about #2.
I removed a few frames to make it more punchy.

AUrankAquanim reverted to shield fight.

I don't think the singuplosion intro fits this trailer, would be better for some heavy clusterfuck action.
+1 / -0


AUrankAquanim
3 months ago
(edited 3 months ago)

For the record, the maps which I know to be based on Starcraft maps besides this one are:

Fairyland, Isle of Grief, Akilon Wastelands (obviously), Iceland, Ravaged, Stronghold_beta, TheHunters

I don't recognise any of Sprung's recent maps as being like any specific Starcraft maps but they are in a similar style and I haven't played Starcraft multiplayer since WoL, so I am not sure about those.

Quicksilver looks like a Starcraft map but I don't think it actually is. I'm a little surprised nobody ever made a Shakuras Plateau-based map, or at least I don't remember seeing one.

I don't know all of the maps from TA, SupCom or the like. Small Supreme Battlefield and Finns Revenge are definitely SupCom maps.
+0 / -0


CHrankAdminDeinFreund
3 months ago
(edited 3 months ago)

Sprung maps are definitely some of the best, and they're even original. But their design is just too basic to "look interesting". I'm astonished by how many maps are SC clones, extra kudos to everybody who makes their own.


New trailer has 100% less humming.
+0 / -0




AUrankAdminGoogleFrog
3 months ago
I like how the trailer is put together. One minute may be too short, I think you can go up to one and a half, however the restriction may be good to focus the trailer.

If people keep wanting to feature low-angle Bandits in trailers then maybe I should fix their animation.

If you're showing the UI I think you have to show the default. I say this because once someone edits their UI it ends up looking broken to other people. For example, your UI has a large semitransparent box at the top, the bottom left lacks background, and its a bit cluttered and spread.

I think the Tron in the first 15 seconds is a solution without a problem. ZK doesn't have any cyberspace themes and I think its the least interesting part of the video. With trailers you've got to keep people interested or they may just close it 5 seconds in.

I like how there is a story/progression to the action. However, it looks a bit staged and I think it would really benefit from wrecks, scars and things going on in the background. The general scenes don't look too hard to come across in a real game so perhaps you could organize a 1v1 with trailer material in mind. The Sumo scene seems like the only one that has a low probability of occurring by chance but it can be aimed for. With a real game you could show some zooming out.

I think the map is fine.
+0 / -0

GBrankTheEloIsALie
3 months ago
I initially thought the commander mesh rendering thing was too "not ZK" and slow, but as you added the map mesh it became interesting. I wanted to suggest just speeding up that part (because I agree with GF, it's suggesting the wrong thing, and it's a quarter of the video), because the whole scene does take a bit too long, but after rewatching, it already seems to be quite fast. So I don't really know how to fix it.

The mesh render itself is a really cool effect and very well done, and (at least for me) did a good job as attention grabber, but it gives off a wrong initial impression. If the rest of the trailer was more engaging, I think it might still work out and be perceived as such by viewers (and not as part of the game), but it's risky.

More notes in random order:

- I think (for a trailer) your shots are too long. In the first 30 seconds, we see a total of 2 commanders and a handful of bandits.

- You'll have a hard time making a good-looking trailer with the normal gameplay footage perspective(s). Your camera work in the first half was nice, but imo you should keep "gameplay perspective" to parts where it's obvious from the scene that it's gameplay footage (i.e. player actively giving orders). For cinematic footage, keep the camera moving!

- The raid around 0:40 won't be understood by outsiders. More zoom-in would've been needed imo. See above.

- You could incorporate the minimap/tactical overview more, to showcase the RTS nature. I think that's something the first "big" ZK trailer got right. If you want to show progression, a progressively denser minimap

- I like that you keep it to a small (1v1) game, which makes grasping each scene (in terms of which units belong to which side) a lot easier.

- Incorporate air? The "looking up at bomber squad" shots that have been used in the past trailer(s) left an impression on me.

- Choice of music is nice. I'd remark that the "buildup" towards the end doesn't feel like one until you notice you've just been built up, but I guess you can't do much about the music (are you allowed to overlay something? Imo it needs something more than the string sequence and the drums - like violins buzzing upwards or so. Just throwing ideas aroudnm). Other than that it definitely has that trailer feel.
+0 / -0


CHrankAdminDeinFreund
3 months ago
quote:
I like how the trailer is put together. One minute may be too short, I think you can go up to one and a half, however the restriction may be good to focus the trailer.

I rather have peoplers being disappointed that it's already over, than bored and clicking away. We already have lots of long trailers. I will probably also make an "action trailer" which could be merged with this one to make a longer one.

quote:
If you're showing the UI I think you have to show the default. I say this because once someone edits their UI it ends up looking broken to other people. For example, your UI has a large semitransparent box at the top, the bottom left lacks background, and its a bit cluttered and spread.

In afterthought I should've really disabled that chat window. I'm just used to having it straight in my face so I didn't notice while recording. Newbies should probably also have the chat there so they finally start communicating :P

Will have to rerecord that then.

quote:
I think the Tron in the first 15 seconds is a solution without a problem. ZK doesn't have any cyberspace themes and I think its the least interesting part of the video. With trailers you've got to keep people interested or they may just close it 5 seconds in.

The problem is boring 2005 graphics and no way of recording cinematic sequences. The first 10 seconds get or lose you the viewer's attention, it should be simple, interesting and building up to the actual content. I doubt just showing two facs being plopped is as effective. 15 seconds is too long though, I'll try to cut off some bits, but that will be hard without making it overly hectic.

I'm open for other intros with the exception of fade-to-blacks and ones containing text.

quote:
I like how there is a story/progression to the action. However, it looks a bit staged and I think it would really benefit from wrecks, scars and things going on in the background. The general scenes don't look too hard to come across in a real game so perhaps you could organize a 1v1 with trailer material in mind. The Sumo scene seems like the only one that has a low probability of occurring by chance but it can be aimed for. With a real game you could show some zooming out.

Even the sumo is not what I would call late-game, so I'm not sure what exactly you're expecting here. Only the shot of North's base(which i have to rerecord anyway) is what I would call obviously fake. There's no time for zooming out or battlefield overviews.

+0 / -0


CHrankAdminDeinFreund
3 months ago
(edited 3 months ago)

quote:
You'll have a hard time making a good-looking trailer with the normal gameplay footage perspective(s). Your camera work in the first half was nice, but imo you should keep "gameplay perspective" to parts where it's obvious from the scene that it's gameplay footage (i.e. player actively giving orders). For cinematic footage, keep the camera moving!

I'll try to zoom in a bit more when rerecording the player perspective. What do you mean by keep the camera moving, more cuts? Because there's no way I can get good looking camera movements in Spring.

Even when trying to set up the static shots I keep getting thrown off the map in random directions because of "ground collision". Please make a camera that moves completely indepedent of the map and any objects on it.

If somebody has a set up where he can fly around freely/record good looking moving shots, I'd be happy to use his recordings.

quote:
Incorporate air? The "looking up at bomber squad" shots that have been used in the past trailer(s) left an impression on me.
I think the consensus was that a simple understandable game progression counts more than cool action.
+0 / -0

AUrankhedgehogs
3 months ago
Personally, I think the commander plopping the fac down in front of him looks weird as a massive factory pops out of nowhere.
Maybe if you have the comm make the factory to the side, and not the teleported one, as it looks nore natural to make one instead of teleport. Would it be better, just as the sumo landed, to immediately blackout and show Zerok logo? That's used a lot in game trailers

Good trailer! Music choice is really fitting with the scene and the render of comms is pretty amazing
+0 / -0

ESrankElTorero
3 months ago
(edited 3 months ago)

[Spoiler]
+1 / -0


AUrankAquanim
3 months ago
(edited 3 months ago)

I see the reasons for concern about the Tron but I think it would be difficult to make something else based on the very start of a ZK game which grabbed more attention. That part does convey the game-related message that you start with a single commander, for what that's worth.

The damage numbers being in some comic-sans-like font is a bit out of character for the game.

(Is that the default? I don't play with that turned on.)

You might want to say "Trailer music by so-and-so" or words to that effect to avoid the possible inference that the rest of the music in the game comes from the same source.
+0 / -0



EErankAdminAnarchid
3 months ago
Any trailer which posits "show off UI" as its goal must show line move.
+0 / -0




AUrankAdminGoogleFrog
3 months ago
(edited 3 months ago)

I think there might be too much focus on putting meaning into the scenes. Here are two Spring-related trailers which just made of cool scenes set to music. They are quite effective even though their only structure is the structure given to them by their music.


Note that the NOTA video is three trailers smushed together, it's not as long as it looks.

The old ZK trailer is a 'cool scenes' trailer which is also structured by the progression of a single game.

The trailer has a nice buildup and structure. The zooming out shots at the end wrap it up nicely and show 'epic scale'. I think this trailer has two main weaknesses:
  • Scene selection.
  • Old graphics (models and effects).
The scene selection is the weak part of an overall great trailer. It's hard to do when you've only got a single battle to work with. For example we don't need to see Bandit feet because nobody will look close enough to see them. The Penetrator scene could shot something blowing up at the end of the laser. There could be more action scenes and fewer construction/setup scenes.

I really think real game footage is superior to staged things. There is some action in the background. You get groundscars and smoking wreckage. The game gets a sense of scale which is either lacking in constructed environments or really tedious to fake.

If I were to create a ZK trailer I would basically do the same thing as the old trailer and try to select scenes better. The basic method is:
The rapid pace of Thunderdome might make scenes too short. However, I think a fast pace accurately reflects ZK.

All three trailers show that good camera work is possible and these trailers were not using COFC. I use COFC to take screenshots but it is extremely annoying to get it into the right location due to its random buggy jumps whenever I try to do anything. Perhaps FPS camera is more reliable. Just experiment. '/trackunit' might have some hardcoded useful behaviour in the more exotic cameras.

I don't think UI needs to be shown in the main trailer. It is the hardest to record (you need to play the game) and the UI is the most likely part of ZK to change.
+2 / -0


CHrankAdminDeinFreund
3 months ago
(edited 3 months ago)

After countless crashes, a bluescreen and many disappointments, I have redone everything. Hope it was worth it.

Terraform and line move added, shortened intro.
+4 / -0
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