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Unit/Building Morph

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DErankManu12
2 months ago
(edited 2 months ago)

Morphing was removed from the game , what is your stance on morphing? : Please bring it back, it worked fine

I still remember the days where you could morph Flea -> Glaive -> Warrior (Reaver) -> Zeus (Knight)
-> Crabe -> Dante -> Bantha (Paladin) -> Detriment and other units when they were
able to kill more metal then they were worth (i think Star rating or sth).
I actually never understood why morphing was removed from the game,
it was a unique way to gain units you shouldnt be able to have / need to build a new factory for.
Will experience morphing ever come back to Zero-K?
+1 / -0


CHrankAdminDeinFreund
2 months ago
I think the reason for removal of all XP effects was pretty simple. A unit with high XP has killed lots of units without dying, so it's very effective. Why do you need to give it any bonus if it's already outstandingly effective in combat?
+0 / -0

DErankManu12
2 months ago
(edited 2 months ago)

A unit being outstandingly in combat and surviving is no trivial task in zero-k
because most hero units die having fought for glory and honor. Morphing supported advandced microing of units,
which led more difficult strategic decissions like: suiciding your units for an even trade or
morphing your units and try to flank your enemys with recluse morphed rockos (ronin).
+0 / -0


CHrankAdminDeinFreund
2 months ago
It does add further decision possibilities and I personally would like to have it. The problem is, that this adds additional depth at the cost of increased complexity. If there's anything that Zero-K doesn't need it's to be even harder to pick up.
+0 / -0

USrankF4Tornado
2 months ago
I think that instead of using morphing to get units you shouldn't, you could add an option to morph Constructors into Necromancers and vice-versa. With that you can get units you add more depth and less complexity than adding morphing. And maybe give transports the ability to move corpses.
+0 / -0

CArankspaceT
2 months ago
I agree with DeinFreund and the complexity, i think I tried zero-k about 5 years ago, or it might have been XTA on TAspring. But whatever the game the whole upgrading units is very confusing to new players. Choosing and upgrading the commander is confusing enough, when I first started I wasnt sure whether I should be focusing on buidling an army or upgrading my commander.
+0 / -0



EErankAdminAnarchid
2 months ago
This is not wesnoth in space
+0 / -0


FIrankVermind
2 months ago
You can build an Athena. That turns a constructor into a necromancer, with the extra benefit that you get to keep the constructor.
+0 / -0

USrankFealthas
2 months ago
Morphing made no sense 90% of the time. Like I think zeus could morph into crabes? And then crabs into scorpions? It didn't really add anything to the game except for the occasional random unit showing up now and again.
+1 / -0

DErankManu12
2 months ago
Morphing made no sense 90% of the time. - Well yes morphing was actually very balanced
because you still have to pay the remaining unit price.
But there are still the 10% where it made a difference and was actually usefull.
I dont think morphing made zero-k much harder or complicated to understand
because newbies often didnt even get one unit to the point where they could morph them.
Instead players which did pay attention had more possibilities to effectively use their units.
+0 / -0


CHrankConnetable
2 months ago
What is the difference between depth and complexity?
+0 / -0

USrankF4Tornado
2 months ago
(edited 2 months ago)

Complexity is basically the amount of features in the game, depth is basically the number of meaningful choices you can make in a game. In game design, your looking to get the most depth for the least complexity. Heres a great video about that:



If you're interested in game design, you should probably binge watch the entire youtube channel.
+2 / -0

USrankFealthas
2 months ago
Manu I mean't that morphing as a system made no sense whatsoever. During a game it was pretty good to be able to morph random striders using no BP.
+0 / -0


AUrankAdminAquanim
2 months ago
(edited 2 months ago)

This discussion happened years ago, but it pretty much boils down to what you've written already:

quote:
it was a unique way to gain units you shouldnt be able to have

for instance, balancing Cloaky around the player maybe having access to Crab through Zeus/Knight morph was a pain in the ass.

Also bypassing the build-power economy was game-assumption-breaking. That is the biggest reason why I expect unit morphing is not going to make a significant comeback.
+0 / -0

DErankManu12
2 months ago
quote:
Also bypassing the build-power economy was game-assumption-breaking. That is the biggest reason why I expect unit morphing is not going to make a significant comeback.


How about changing morph with random self buildpower to sending a unit into a rebuild state?
Then you would have to use your constructors to actually build the new unit with existing buildpower.
+0 / -0


FIrankVermind
2 months ago
Since you need to pay the remaining cost, and need constructors to be there, this becomes very similar to just reclaiming your units to build new ones, which you can already do. This would also introduce a second, different morph mechanic in addition to current commander morph, making the game more complex.
+0 / -0

USrankSteel_Blue
2 months ago
Actually reclaiming constructed units/constructions only returns 50% of total metal cost invested into it, and I would probably want walk that unit all the way to the factory caretakers, so out may be faster to just get the other factory and build the whole thing anyway. I also don't want warriors to just appear in my enemies' glaive lines.
+0 / -0

ITrankOldGhostStalker
2 months ago
I used morph years ago when the unlock system was a thing to get locked units. But I liked that and I want to see some units that can morph into some others; but I have to admit that some units morph were a bit of a nonsense (like zeuses into crabes).
+0 / -0



AUrankAdminGoogleFrog
14 days ago
Morph was removed because it had various bugs and issues that required fixing, and nobody fixed them. See https://github.com/ZeroK-RTS/Zero-K/issues/340

The morphs were scattered around without much logic or consistency. They existed because they had always existed. Perhaps the Train Factory units could have morphs. Designing a factory with morphs in mind sounds much better than retrofitting them.
+0 / -0

AUrankisaach
14 days ago
Train factory? Please add trains to the normal game please
+2 / -0
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