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1v1 Map idea

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GBrankSparkles
8 days ago
(edited 8 days ago)

Hey guys. Following on from previous discussions about getting some more strategically designed maps for 1v1, here's the first of a few ideas.

This one is quite ambitious in that it aims to be supportive of all factory starts.



Safe zones would allow Plane, gunship and JJ starts with no access via other factories. The tradeoff for the safety is less resources.

The frontal starting zone allows an unsafe geo, and a choice of 3 routes.
The high road would be slightly bumpy, best for spiders/bots to take advantage of.
The low road is flat best for vehicles and hovers.
The water is obviously for boats, hovers and amph, although it will have a slight incline to get in / out to stop hovers dominating mobility. In the middle of the water is a peak with great metal, but only accessible to amphbots or flying factories.

Because the resources have been balanced around each factory's terrain capabilities, the map aims to have a lot of viable choices for each player.

Size-wise, the map should be just large enough to encourage most games to get into facswitch territory.

If anyone is up for making the map and saving me weeks of learning, the idea is yours to take and go wild with - please, please do.
+3 / -0

ZArankAstran
8 days ago
Nice idea and cool map. This map will probably reward creative play a lot due to the mixed terrain.

I suspect spiders may be strongest on this.

They're already reasonable on flat ground and will be able to access the high ground and safe zones as well. Depending on the size of the map porc on the high ground could deny areas of the water to other facs too. I'm just guessing here but you may end up with a map with a smaller high ground han flat area in its final, balanced iteration.

:)
+0 / -0


GBrankSparkles
8 days ago
(edited 8 days ago)

I don't want 1 factory to dominate so maybe the mountainous area could have terrain bumps / features that make it usable but not abusable. A flat and winding path within it would allow access to vehicles. Meanwhile, the south path of the water would be immune to crab volleys. So the only thing for spiders to dominate would be the top 2/5ths. I don't think that would be a reason for balance concern here.

Oh by the way, the lava stops spiders from accessing safe zones.
+0 / -0



EErankAdminAnarchid
8 days ago
(edited 8 days ago)

I think this is heavily an amph map.

Lava doesn't stop the jumpers from accessing the safe zone, and amph units are secretly all jumpers because Lobster exists. But generally i like the idea of a lava chasm island.

Technically, the lava will also require some shenanigans to get water and lava to coexist on the same map: typically, lava is a type of damaging water, and Spring water is the plane {y=0}.

This map is narrow, and having three lengthwise domains makes it even more functionally narrow for factories that are locked to any of these domains, e.g. ships are locked to water, rovers are locked to not-water. This narrowness means low ability to maneuever in 1v1; in teamgames, this means that the game dissolves into a series of 1v1, one for each lane.

In both of these situations, porc-and-arty playstyle prevails; which means that factories with strong artillery will be favored (maybe alongside the safe-start air that is the only thing that retains ability to switch lanes at will, until Chainsaws and Artemis appear). This also gives a bonus to slow but powerful units; and this fits amphs very well.

Which, in this case, means ships will eventually dominate (or in 1v1, amph start into ships to capitalize on lane economy), as i expect Envoys and later Shoguns will be able to harass both south and north dry lanes with impunity.

The cliff in the middle will not be only accessible to amphs: it will be accessible to ship-plopping Recon commanders as well. Being a metal-heavy and very defensible thing, it will also intensify the slippery slope that's already inherent in narrow lane maps.

It would still be interesting to see someone try to implement it.
+1 / -0


GBrankSparkles
8 days ago
Good theoretical analysis. If anyone takes up and makes the map we can put that theory to the test and attempt to balance around it somehow.

With regards to water+lava, that's a shame. Is it actually possible to have both? It does not need to be lava, but it does need to block passage completely to anything but jumps/air... Any thoughts?
+0 / -0



EErankAdminAnarchid
8 days ago
There are some workarounds i can think of. The main problem is that most of them won't stop unit idiocy like spiders walking or planes landing into the affected area. Most ideas would require a gadget.

- A terrain typedef with emissive features, absolute speed malus, and gadget that kills everything that steps on it. This probably means that terraforming won't remove this nicely: terraformed typedef'd areas will still be deadly, even if their texture is overwritten! Requires a gadget to apply damage to units standing on lava tiles.

- An indestructible and non-interactive laser fence unit - basically just something that shoots several lasers along he blockage's length. Conceivably can be workarounded by body-blocking or digging a ditch. Doesn't require a gadget.

- Downcount-style barrier gadget (but with altitude limits). Possibly one that kills rather than block. Requires gadget to both do all of its effects, and draw it. Not removable via terraform.
+0 / -0

DErankManu12
8 days ago
In this case you could set the Safe zone a bit higher and fill the Lava part with a small water channel.
This should block all nasty unit(spiders) and you dont actually have to kill them with lava.
In this case you could still use water in the middle of the map.

If you tell me some details i might build this one for you
(dont expect too much it is basicly my second attempt)

- Do you actually want deep water or should ships not be able to path in mid?
- Should this be more like metal plates(would feel like speedmetal) or are there real mex spots?
- I think this map is about 12x8 or 10x6 what do you think?
- Where are the Geos on the low ground
- Is the low ground just flat?

- Are there Mountains on the height ground?(spikes, heavily spider favoured)
or rather small plateaus (Mex still accessable by bots/rovers but need to go back to go further
or A single/two opposing big mountain(s) which are more or less flat
(so jumps have more chances/could block off spiders with small water channel between them)
-to all above should there be a ramp to the rock/mountain (for rovers) or a path (no rovers but bots)
or just spider/jumps pathable
+0 / -0


GBrankSparkles
8 days ago
Google, Anarchid - Maybe to destroy the idea of hard lanes, the water could be incredibly shallow. Enough for vehicles to go on, but not fleas. Any thoughts?

Manu -
Love the idea about the safe zone. No lava, just a deep river and a cliff.

Deep water? Up for debate now.
Real mex spots
Agree with 12x8
Geothermals on the low ground, they are like so: --x----------x--
Low ground is totally flat but it can have a few features if you like. Infact:
High ground has metal rocks for collection.
Low ground has a treeline at the very southmost point for collection.

The highground is meant to be useable by vehicles still, so it's mountainous and has a few spikes but with a path sort of going through it horizontally. Like so:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
=============================
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The full design of the high ground is open to ideas, so long as vehicles may use it, but bots and spiders will have an advantage. Obviously, any units using the mountain path will be hidden to radar back down below.
+0 / -0



EErankAdminAnarchid
8 days ago
(edited 8 days ago)

quote:
Google, Anarchid - Maybe to destroy the idea of hard lanes, the water could be incredibly shallow. Enough for vehicles to go on, but not fleas. Any thoughts?

I approve.

Set it to -6 ... -8, and add some variety (deeper areas for subs and amphs, low dry areas for land units to run away from ships) and you're set.

See Thornford for reference.
+0 / -0


GBrankSparkles
8 days ago


Updated version to reflect conversation. Shallow water edition.
+3 / -0



EErankAdminAnarchid
8 days ago
(edited 8 days ago)

Hm, just hit me that shallow water being shallow means that the middle spike becomes a natural crabe spire (much like middle pilars on Thorn seem to be).

Well i'm not sure it's a bad thing; spiders vs ships with amphs trying to lob things in the sidelines is interesting :)
+0 / -0


GBrankSparkles
8 days ago
I think it's a good thing because spiders don't have a terrain advantage elsewhere. If problematic though, we can make a deep-water donut around the spire.
+0 / -0

DErankManu12
8 days ago
(edited 8 days ago)

so on the middle spike should be a supermex? then crabe cant stay up there or it will block mex construction.
but it will still hang around at the side, well i dont think spiders will go to mid anyways because the lowground has more metal

or should there just be more mex at lowground than on highground, instead of stronger mex?
+0 / -0

USrankFealthas
8 days ago
Safe zones are terrible imo. Basically make raiders useless and push the game right into porc/arty spam phase.
+1 / -0


GBrankSparkles
8 days ago
(edited 8 days ago)

Manu, middle mex on spike not sure - just a good amount of metal.... Like 5? I don't know this one.
Low ground should probably have 3 mex spots per side with maybe 3 metal each?
High ground should have the same but only 2 spots per side perhaps.

(We can balance the metal distribution after playtesting)

Fealthas, not worried about safe zone issue because the metal back there is going to be a bit more limited. Access to it means a more predictable start or waiting until second factory.
+0 / -0



EErankAdminAnarchid
7 days ago
Hmmm. I now additionally realize that WRT most back start modes:

- Jumpers (including Ampha) will be able to access this area with impunity, most likely
- All other factories will be able to access them if plopped by a Recon Commander
- Many of proposed solutions are also vulnerable to terraform - it may cost a fairly small amount of metal to bypass the lava

Making the "lava" gap wide enough to require two jumps defeats most of these issues at the cost of allowing ships to enter that zone and become annoying. It doesn't defeat Recon Commander unless it's both lethal and wide enough to require two jumps.

I don't think it should defeat terraform, but it's okay if terra-breaching this is expensive.
+0 / -0


GBrankdyth68
7 days ago
GBrankSparkles: When placing mexes, bare in mind that how much metal you get from a mex is NOT linear with their stated metal value!
A 4 metal mex is worth twice as much as a 2 metal mex in the early game when overdrive isn't a thing, but it will get four times as much value from overdrive, so once energy income goes over double metal income and overdrive starts to dominate metal output your 4m mex is worth four times your 2m mex...
+0 / -0

DErankManu12
6 days ago
There you are Sparkles, i hope i was able to create the map you had in mind.
Tell me if there are any problems with this map.
https://springfiles.com/spring/spring-maps/map-shifting-sands

What i still need to know:
How can i download my map from Zero-k launcher now?
How can i fix whitescreen mappreview when selecting the map in the skirmish menu/
having it selected in lobby




+3 / -0

DErankManu12
6 days ago
btw. Anarchid you still need to announce mapmaking contest/tourney
+0 / -0



EErankAdminAnarchid
6 days ago
(edited 6 days ago)

quote:
How can i download my map from Zero-k launcher now?

Once ZK infrastructure notices your map's existence, it can be chosen in passworded hosts (since it's un-Supported by default). Then you can remove the password, or tell it to other players. Or when someone marks it Supported, which i just did (for science!).

quote:
How can i fix whitescreen mappreview when selecting the map in the skirmish menu/
having it selected in lobby

Should happen automatically... when ZK infra notices your map's existence. Which is has.

Now you have no excuse to not playtest it :P

quote:
btw. Anarchid you still need to announce mapmaking contest/tourney

Yes. Probably tomorrow. :)
+1 / -0
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