Loading...
  OR  Zero-K Name:    Password:   

Dominatrix vs. Tank

42 posts, 1598 views
Post comment
Filter:    Player:  
Page of 3 (42 records)
sort


5 years ago
I made two Tank vs. Rover replays:
Post more.


The first game may have been over before CAranknoobula saw the first Domi. This doesn't discount how each player played due to the existence of the unit, but it is something to note.

I was Tank in the second game and it felt a lot closer. I am not so sure about this result though because I had a Kodachi kill many mexes and was able to kill the first Dominatrix with Blitz.

If Dominatrix is too good then I am leaning towards a speed nerf. A slower Dominatrix would be deployed later (see Buoy) and it would be easier to raid into or swarm with enough assaults. Currently it is approximately the same speed as a tank midgame army (Ogre and Minotaur) and fast enough to support Scorchers in Blitz/Kodachi battles. Perhaps a longer reload time would also be good, but this doesn't seem like it would affect the worst cases.

What I find weird about Dominatrix is that it allows the Rover player to force the game into particular paths. If the Tank player does not factory switch, it feels like they need to get an advanced HLT and probably an Emissary. This forces the Tank player into being slow. This is why I am considering a slower Dominatrix - it makes the Rover player similarly slow and gives the Tank player more opportunities to stay fast and try to go around it.
+0 / -0
Nerf reload speed, movespeed nerfs would make it very sad vs ogre and mino. Maybe its time for a real tank skirm?
+0 / -0

5 years ago
https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/698099
https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/698097
https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/698050
+0 / -0
5 years ago
I feel that domi is only problematic/difficult vs tanks. While in other matchups it is the rover's only answer to assaults or assault + riot.
In this scenario, domi's need their speed to be able to kite (which is made more difficult due to their turn radius).
The problem with tanks is that they have no light units (the weakness of domi). This makes them weak vs most anti-heavies (racketeer, sniper, ultimatum, widow) and heavy/skirmisher like units (grizzly, buoy, maybe crabe to some extent)
Maybe the thing to focus on would be the interaction with koda (and to a lesser extent, blitz).
The only difficulty is that the koda is such a nice unit ^^

Maybe:
Decrease koda weight
Decrease domi health so that few koda hits + afterburn kills them (encourage including cons for repair)

Nevertheless, I think that koda-spam beats domi's right now. Especially since captured koda's don't hurt other koda's that much since they cannot catch on fire.

(btw in the noobula game I see 4 mexes and no cons vs 7 mexes and 2 cons, so indeed it was over)
+2 / -0

5 years ago
i find it weired that the dominatrix beam does not interact with shield...
+0 / -0
http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/696333
While I agree that Dominatrix counters tank, it also has huge glaring weaknesses and is mostly useless against a skilled player (this is admittedly a minority) who has access to light raiders (particularly fleas).
I don't think you can nerf Domi without making it useless in non-tank situations in high level play (the problems that come with trying to ensure 10 factories are all balanced against each other and yet all unique...). Of course, you could decide you're balancing for low and mid-level play in which case a nerf would be just fine...
A tank player will need to make a spider fac and a couple of dozen fleas when Dominatrix starts being a problem.
+3 / -0
5 years ago
cloak generator allows dominatrix to get pwned.. but if your enemy has brains they will send units in to expose your cloaked units. cloak still struggles on mass domi tho

i would love to be able to set an enemy ai to only be able to use 1 unit/lab so that i can practice countering.. is there an easy way to do this?

10 brutal ai's with dominatrix spam on a flat non deform-able map should tell me how easy it can be stopped.. if i cant beat an ai then that would be weird
+0 / -0


5 years ago
10 brutal ais without terraform won't need dominatrix.

I agree with that if you want to nerf domi, nerf reloadtime. Speed is Domi's strength, and a critical one to boot given how little range advantage it has vs Ogre and Mace, and how its vehicle turnradius cuts further into that. Especially since Rover pretty much has no other answer to mass Ogre.
+5 / -0


5 years ago
Some random "facts" about tanks, rovers and domis:

The dominatrix player has to micro range hard or lose their gamble, the tank player just has to retreat or attack.

Kodachi is a fantastic unit against most rovers, and sent in numbers, will beat dominatrix.

A non babysitted dominatrix can be baited with nanoframes.

Most games I see tank players complain about dominatrix literally sent units headfirst into them, knowing full well it was on the cards. If you act like a (slow) raging bull, dominatrix will be used as an anti heavy. Similarly, if you send fleas into an outlaw, this does not make outlaw OP. This makes you silly.

Rovers have 0 lategame units. Dominatrix allows them to pretend that they do, and balances this problem out slightly.

Tanks are mostly lategame units. Their start is shakier as a result.

Tanks got a little more viable after the econ changes because they can afford their expensive units quicker.

During rovers vs rovers mirror clashes, the first player to switch to TANKS will win the clash hands down, it's a logical hardware upgrade. However, tanks unsupported by rovers don't roflpwn nearly as much.

And lastly, personal feeling. Dominatrix is a weird unit, a true gambler's choice. It's the only unit that will protect rovers from tanks (particularly rover killer king - Ogre) aside from dart. With darts met by kodachi, all we have left is dominatrix. I feel like people have played less carefuly and suicided to dominatrix where they could have easily facswitched fleas, roaches, phoenix, thunderbird, licho, glaives, daggers, blastwings, grizzly, firewalker, puppy.
+8 / -0

5 years ago
it´s my feel as well that in a tank-rover-fight, the rover-playeri is the one who has to spend way more attention and apm, wich is somehow ironic...
+0 / -0


5 years ago
@Sparkles: As a tank player I can't run from Dominatrix, its range is larger than the vision range of my Ogres. And once it's started attacking I have no way to retreat before losing my ogres.

I would love to know how Kodachi is a "fantastic unit against most rovers". In my experience it loses to most rovers pretty badly, particularly due to how their fire kills themselves.

Do you have a replay where you can demonstrate these anti-dominatrix tactics of yours?
+1 / -0
quote:
Do you have a replay where you can demonstrate these anti-dominatrix tactics of yours?

50 elo likely if you win a a rover!dyth68 vs tank!Sparkles sounds like a honorable bet.
+0 / -0


5 years ago
EErankAdminAnarchid: Except I have no idea how to play Rover. :P
I play tank mostly, some cloak and some air.
+0 / -0

5 years ago
I don't want to see a Dominatrix nerf. It is the one unit that prevents Tanks from completely rolling over rovers.
+0 / -0

5 years ago
My experience of Domi is also that it fails hard without careful micro. You've got to turn around at exactly the right time to avoid falling into range of your targets, especially if you're trying to whittle down a strong push of heavies. Yes, big, shielded, cloaked balls of them are devastating assimilation machines, but big balls of most things need special measures, especially if you've been suffering attrition and not gained anything from it.

Surely, unless tank has already more or less won in the raider phase, they'll probably plop Emissary regardless of Domis?

While Domi may force tank into particular strategies, tank usually forces Domi on rovers because Ogre eats everything else that Rover can throw at it. Why is curtailing the choices of your opponent a bad thing anyway? Isn't that just strategy? Also why does it matter that lowering reload time (presumably meaning slower captures) might not deal with the "worst cases?" What are the worst cases anyway? If it's the cloaked, shielded, escorted assimilation ball, surely you deserve to lose if you allow it to form without an answer, just as you deserve to lose for allowing the Minotaur push to build up, or the Recluse ball, or the Lance stack?

Yes, seeing a large domi ball snap up one's heavies is frustrating, but that's what they're purpose built for. So long as the game stays light and fast, they're not much good. As others have said, tank doesn't do very well at keeping it light and fast so it suffers disproportionately.

Then again, my experience is that rover often struggles vs shields, and shields vs jumps (or spiders for that matter). Most facs probably have a nemesis, all else being equal.
+0 / -0
I believe that nerfing the domi will make it struggle against other facs much more then its worth imo. If nerfed to hard tanks will simply ogre them to death

edit: perhaps simply buff the blitz in a way to make them the primary counter to domis because kodas tend to kill themselves?
+1 / -0
im not sure i agree that 10 brutal ai is very hard ~ in the context of only being able to spam 1 unit kind..

i think i could beat 10 brutal ai that could only spam dominatrix cons and eco
even if i had tanks.. i would cheese it with counter tactics.. or maybe i would loose.. probably your right i would loose.

I have an idea.. what if both enemy and ally could use the dominated unit and command it.. and it could shoot both teams still =P
+0 / -0

5 years ago
There is an attack, you are attacking the enemy and you suicide, thereby causing great damage.
Dominatrix destroys this idea completely, because it takes the unit.
Okay, I attack with use the Ogre, let my the Ogre simply be destroyed, but instead I lose a expensive unit and now this unit will attack me and I am not able to take it back, I will have to spend resources to defend against from the Ogre, while the Dominatrix is ​​nothing spends at all.
And no need to offer options with fleas, the Dominatrix group is always protected
+1 / -0
quote:
There is an attack, you are attacking the enemy and you suicide, thereby causing great damage.
Convict+Felon destroys this idea completely, because it reclaimss the unit and converts it into more felon convict
Okay, I attack with use the Ogre, let my the Ogre simply be destroyed, but instead I lose a expensive unit and now this unit will be reclaimed into more convict felon and I am not able to take it back, I will have to spend resources to defend against from the convict felone, while the convict felon is ​​nothing spends at all.
And no need to offer options with thunderbird, the shieldball is always protected

Suiciding is bad even against Not Domi.


On topic, i have a rocket car model lying around. If a capturing skirmisher is that evil, give rovers a real damage skirm and/or antiheavy?
+0 / -0


5 years ago
I'm not keen on a standard Rover skirmisher. That is more of a bot attribute.
+0 / -0
Page of 3 (42 records)