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I miss building multiple factories

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2 months ago
I understand that the single factory is an important part of Zero-K's RPS style gameplay, but I really miss being able to build extra factories from TA, SupCom etc.


- Being able to build a factory dedicated to a specific unit with particular orders (eg. air scouts on a patrol route).

- Being able to build a frontline factory to hold territory.


I wonder if the sub factory / main factory mechanic from Forged Alliance Forever might be ok in Zero-K?

ie. When you have a factory of a particular type (main factory), you can build cheap additional factories of the same type (sub factories). However, if the main factory is destroyed, the sub factories can no longer build units until the main factory is replaced.


Perhaps the sub factories should be about as cost efficient as caretakers. You're losing the flexibility of caretakers but gaining various other advantages. And perhaps they should have less HP than main factories.
+1 / -0


2 months ago
I do too, but expensive factories are the neatest implementation of Zero-K's tech structure. The aim is not to create RPS (we actually want to avoid factory-RPS), rather it is to establish factories as soft-factions. Your role and strengths in the early game are determined by the factory you pick, but you are able to add more factories to increase your tech choices. Factories are built for the technology, not for the increased production.

Subfactories is the best solution that I've heard so far. Here are the main choices to make:
  • Cost - I like 200 metal because it feels relatively cheap, but not spammable.
  • Buildpower - The question is whether to give the factory 10 BP, making it the most efficient source of BP, or 5 BP.
  • Inheritance - Does it lose its build options if you lose all your 'real' factories with that type of tech?

I think it would be fun to try out. To do this we would need 12 distinct models (or at least textures) to indicate the type of a subfactory. I think the cheapest way would look something like the Tank Factory, except that the trap door on the top of the tank factory would be replaced with a flat region that can display the radar icon associated with the factory that it is replacing. If someone makes such a model (with animation) and texture replacement system (the custom comm CUS system should work) then I'd do the other lua.
+2 / -0

2 months ago
i could say something about fac-rps, but it´s not going to be listened to, so i just say nothing...
+0 / -1
i like factory tech tree and the cost separating the tech roles.
playing spider fac it should feel like im a spider class. choices shou1ld matter.
+2 / -0
If it's not necessary for a player to be able to reduce another player's build options by destroying a single building, I think we can have frontline factories merely by having cheaper factory on the buildlist of the constructor belongs to that factory's roster, like a Conjurer can build cheaper Cloakfac, a Mason can build cheaper Roverfac etc, no need for additional models.
+0 / -0
thats a handy idea but unless all facs are cheap players will unit gift to provide tech to eachother like BA t2 cons
+0 / -0

2 months ago
The tech would unlock for the whole team.
+0 / -0
Even if you can't share the factory tech, you can always make units according to another player's request and send the completed units to that player, which is not particularly different.
+2 / -0

2 months ago
Is it really necessary to have 12 different models?
How broken is a universal recipient factory that can build anything any of your other factories can build?

I like the cheap fac idea because it would also give additional nanobays - being capped on the number of units you can build by their speed (and not your BP) feels bad.
+0 / -0

2 months ago
I like the idea of a builder having discount to the factory that it belongs to itself. Like mentioned, unit sharing is already possible so it should not really affect team balance. In my opinion it would be much better if not every player needed to build their own striderhub and what not when they want to get access to more units despite teammates already having access to those units.

I think it would be nice if there was somekind of togglable option on factorys to share them for the rest of the team without sharing everything else. Only the player who "owns" the factory is allowed to decide whether it is shared or not and units queued by other teammates could have their own team color surround the ordered units icon in the factory queue.
Of course here is some problems:
* Who pays the metal cost of the unit? Preferably the person who ordered the unit should pay its metal cost, but I don't see this being easy to implement.
* What to do if someone wills your factory with unit orders of their own? It would be good if the owner of the factory had ability to remove build queue requests from other players while others are not able to remove the factory owners queue requests.
* What to do if factory is set on repeat when someone else queues unit? Preferably, all queue requests by players not owning the factory should not be repeated.

Still, that is probably too much work and the discount factory idea will help to fix the same issues.
+0 / -0
It seems some of the posters here are OK with what unit a factory can build depend on the existence of other buildings, then why not just have tech buildings?

Like you need to build a tech facility and assign a factory tech to it (probably simply by having it built adjacent to a factory) to enable the unit production of all factories of that type. For more factory techs you need more tech facilities. Commander comes with a free tech facility.

Then the factories can be cheap since they are only for unit production now.

We only need 1 additional model for this.
+0 / -0

2 months ago
Factories are only 800 metal. You can have 5 factories for the cost of a Strider hub and a Dante.
+0 / -0
2 months ago
quote:
Factories are only 800 metal. You can have 5 factories for the cost of a Strider hub and a Dante.

A frontline factory in Zero-K does not have 1/5 of the value of a Strider Hub plus a Dante.
+0 / -0

2 months ago
Why not?
+0 / -0
It's away from any caretaker you build near your starting factory, and the maps in 0K are usually not large enough to make reducing unit traverse time particularly important.
+1 / -0
Why would caretakers speed up the construction of a building halfway across the map?

Why can't you build caretakers at the firebase?
+0 / -0
2 months ago
Then I think you would need to count the cost of those additional caretakers too.

As I said, usually unit traverse time is not particularly important in Zero-K, so how could that be a better option than building your new factory within the nanolathe range of the caretakers you already built?
+0 / -0

2 months ago
Unit traverse time is very important in Zero-K, that is why at the beginning of games people usually build raiders, and scouts.
+0 / -0


2 months ago
quote:
I think it would be fun to try out. To do this we would need 12 distinct models (or at least textures) to indicate the type of a subfactory. I think the cheapest way would look something like the Tank Factory, except that the trap door on the top of the tank factory would be replaced with a flat region that can display the radar icon associated with the factory that it is replacing.

That's just as expensive as merely making 12 replacement factories, while also ugly. Making 12 factories which each consist of two modules (parent and child) wouldn't be much more difficult.

Does a factory with an equipped subfactory produce both kinds of units? Is the subfactory selectable individually? Or does a rover/cloak hybrid factory produce half of the cloak roster and half of the rover roster?
+1 / -0
i worry that if facs are cheap we will see 90% of units unused late game and players will favor of the cream from each factory. and then with many players doing the same thing some units wil become rare with players prefering to grab a new fac and get the better unit.
+1 / -0
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