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Reason:   B777616 6 on AlienDesert ?
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hey, i am the rager here! ("you literal fucking moron" is not very nice!)
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Yes and no. No as in not that game in particular, it was just the last straw; yes because that's basically my entire team game experience. You and Benny both have higher casual and MM elo (and skill) than me, yet it is I who gets two out of the 'worse' three players. http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/7775933v4, both Thomas1 and Radavvadra are easily better than me. We won because they went troll strats, not because our team played better. http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/777590Again, Thomas1 and Radavvadra are better than me. Whenever there's an even amount of players on my level/better than me, the teamings are fair (although I'm probably causing my team to lose the grand majority of the time still), but when a clearly lower ELO player joins in, I get the short end of the stick and have them stuck on my team. I've seen some purple people join team games and the teamings they tend to get; I feel similar in the current situation, except that I don't have the SKILLS to fix the team median ability like the game expects me to. The frustration I'm feeling has driven me to regularly spectate when I don't really even enjoy watching games/replays. What's the point of playing when I'm expected to win against impossible odds? Wins and losses are fleeting, I've played enough high level matches in C&C to not care about the results (me 'losing' and me 'being the deadweight that makes my team lose' are two different things though), but this shit's been my day to day ZK experience. And I'm just about done with it. Being new, I don't know people so I can't arrange or join in-house games, and I have no way of avoiding the ELO-bombs in autohost games. Outside of a specific mid/high ELO autohost, I see no way to improve my situation without getting the SKILLZ to match what game expects of me. I'm not a teen anymore, so I can't dedicate the required time to practice and achieve an even playing field in a timely manner against people who've played thousands of games. I'm at the verge of quitting the game at this point. I consider it lucky if I can get one game per day before the teamings expect me to carry my team... As it's bound to be mentioned, I don't really enjoy 1v1. I do play it periodically for a time, but eventually I drop it in favor of team games. 1v1 isn't something I've ever played consistently over longer durations.
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I am surprised that the algorithm couldn't find a better arrangement than that in B777616 6 on AlienDesert. Was anybody in a party in that game? I have to say though that my recent experience of playing in a high-rating host resulted in games just as awful as what you're describing, so I'm not at all convinced it is a clean fix.
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   katastrophe I saw what happens when your frustration boiled over, now you've seen what happens when mine does :) Frankly, this one's been boiling for so long that that comment isn't even the tip of the iceberg -_-'' Just be glad I resigned right after instead of continuing to write... -e- I wasn't in a party at least.
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welcome to my world of the last 3 years. i understand you completely. it´s my day to day expierience as well. (in contrast i think i might have insulted ppl one or two times in those 3 years and calling them out on their mistakes is not the same at swearing at them wich i find unacceptable...) i also feel the algorithm has some strange behaviour. there are some ppl like you, me or for example   indaled or    UnLuky i think (great name in this context :D) who regularly draw the short one, there are other ones that are very lucky often (    markivs ). anyway, if you don´t care for the results, why are you so angry? i can´t actually tell you why i don´t quit, seems my passion for this game is too strong.
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Because the fun in games for me lies in playing to win. I want to win through my (and my team's) skill, not by a lucky break; when the teams are stacked and I'm expected to make up skill difference against two players better than me, it's not a matter of skill anymore. Winning against impossible odds through a lucky break is about as riveting as my chain of losses to purple people in 1v1, with the exception that those 1v1's were valuable learning material.
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quote:
I am surprised that the algorithm couldn't find a better arrangement than that in Multiplayer B777616 6 on AlienDesert. Was anybody in a party in that game? |
Not to my knowledge. Or at least I can confirm that I was not. Maybe Benny4537 or @MrGreen8 were. Either way, my cloakie friend was sleeping at the keyboard for the first 5 minutes of the match so that's not why that happened. When he woke up he hauled ass, but that took a while. Props to Benny for holding mid. EDIT: But were the teams that stacked though? Who on my side was tilting the balance so hard? Here's a better question: what do you think would have been a better matchup in that player pool?
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do predict before game start and see the teams b4,and decide then and there if its worth trying. I often get stacked,and when i do i have to somehow crush my lane and then help the others as best as i can,which can be very difficult if my team mates get crushed faster than i can win my lane at that point its GG cause i have to take a serious beating to hold them all off long enough for my team to get enough units back out to hold. example: http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/775048 http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/774284 http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/770523 http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/770110 http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/774278In these sort of games your really down to rng as your hope.At times beating 2 players at same time can be impossible if theyre combo is too strong against your factory,even if they are gold rated or lower players.It can be extremly frustrating even when your winning because its simply not fun getting shreded constantly you dont even have time to look around and see if you can give ome hints/tips,but most of the time your really in no mood to teach the game to ppl who dont even know the basics while your getting rekt.
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quote:
EDIT: But were the teams that stacked though? Who on my side was tilting the balance so hard?
Here's a better question: what do you think would have been a better matchup in that player pool? |
The degree to which you were stronger than Highrule and Benny was stronger than Sodbuster quite outweighs the amount gilmour was better than MrGreen (as per ratings, anyway). Working from current casual ratings (which may not accurately reflect the situation at the time...) The game as played: Galamesh: 2221 MrGreen8: 1607 Benny: 2038 Sum: 5866 Highrule: 2047 happy69gilmour: 1746 Sodbuster: 1899 Sum: 5692 Difference: 174 Alternative: Galamesh: 2221 MrGreen6: 1607 Sodbuster: 1899 Sum: 5727 Highrule: 2047 happy69gilmour: 1746 Benny: 2038 Sum: 5831 Difference: 104
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It's possible that your rating is somewhat overinflated as a result of getting lucky in a few 1v1s but besides that I am quite confident the system is not out to get you. Everybody gets rubbish games, and every so often somebody will get a string of rubbish games. (Also, I advise you to avoid 2v3, 3v4, etc. games. Those are almost always trash.)
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Well, either way @Highrule1 my dude you're going in the right direction so I would say keep it up. Somebody donated a few too many units. I forget who. Were you northeast rovers? There were a few costly scorcher runbys that didn't do much except provide us reclaim. Even if that wasn't you, consider making a small radar and morphing it into a plane for scouting before commiting to a suicidal raiding. I don't think we had fantastic AA and that's a really cheap option.
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There are very few people in this game that can actually play 1v1. The skillset is really different from the one required to play clusterfucks.   Galamesh actually points out one of your weak-points: you simply suicide too much into your opponents. I guess ppl know me for standing around in team-games most of the time, idling my units and observing the current situation. This is a) because i conditioned myself to play alone and macro over the whole map, with relatively little unit-micro an b) because i have learned that if you attack in team-games, you either fail and feed, or, even worse, you win, but then a third force shows up, kills you and eats you again. You are just dependant on your team pushing with you or you are super-likely to loose. (That said i am by no means a secret purple player just held back by bad teammates. i mess up quite often and derp around alot.)
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How fucked would my rating be now if I managed to grasp that chance? |
The immediate bonus would have been maybe around 100, but: - Casual elo would not be affected if the game was played in MM - Even if it were affected (in a custom-room 1v1 etc?), you'd probably have rebound it quite soon with additional losses due to weaker allies if playing in teams. IME these black swan events are usually adjusted back to normalcy quite fast by WHR. Personal anecdote here: i once fed like 100-150 casuelo to (then light-blue) UltraGodzilla by playing several handicap games in a custom room with ships; it recovered over a month or two and i don't even play casual that often, usually preferring either 1v1-K or spec-K. - Now, what if it would have failed to decay like above? Well, then you'd have deserved the higher ranking and in that hypothetical case, would have deserved the noblesse oblige of having to carry your lobsters. quote:
I guess ppl know me for standing around in team-games most of the time, idling my units and observing the current situation. |
Casting a glance at the global situation to think where you (and your team) are doing wrong and could do better is a very important skill, and if you look at top teams players, they all have this. The very best ones top this further by being able to do this without idling units (but still prefer to do it when the shooting calms a bit), by figuring out better plans on how to deal with the problems they detect, and sometimes by being able to rally their allies for this plan. The latter ability is the privilege of having a shinier color: if you're ranked higher, people are more likely to listen to you.
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ok, @Highrule1, i can make you an offer: join us on mumble, so we can rage together :D you can learn the game until you feel comfortable with your skill and then limit yourself to tournament games. this way, you could learn and avoid the hell of the clusterfuck-grindmill... ps.   Anarchid: "The latter ability is the privilege of having a shinier color: if you're ranked higher, people are more likely to listen to you." ask  Sigero about that. Purple colour: increase the likelyhood that people listen to you by 15%? so like going from 20% to 23?
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katastrophe The suicide runs are an issue, but actually not a skill-based one like you'd think. I've more or less figured out the style I want to play, but now I'm simply expecting too much unquestioned teamwork from ZK players. I've asked for AA support for my push in a situation where my ally could easily build it. Didn't get it, instead I'm told "make it yourself, rovers got good AA". I'm expecting people to be able to synergize pushes and/or have the ability to pull enemy forces around in order to create a hole to go through; I'm expecting people to... build units... which sometimes makes me sad... Back in C&C, unless you really scraped the bottom of the barrel people of all levels had an understanding of such teamwork without being told. This is a deeply ingrained mentality and extremely hard to get rid of, but I have to get used to the idea that in ZK there's an "I" in "team". Until I can fix that, I'll keep suiciding units like a moron -_-''
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Until I can fix that, I'll keep suiciding units like a moron -_-'' |
The solution is to play alongside people you trust: join (or start) a clan and party up for lobster raids. (Clans used to automatically be parties in that the balancer tried to put people in the same clan on the same team. Now you kind of have to use parties for that - but it also allows you to have fluid inter-clan parties, which is also fun) You can't likely fix everyone, but you can "fix" a small culture around yourself. quote:
ask Sigero about that. Purple colour: increase the likelyhood that people listen to you by 15%? so like going from 20% to 23? |
I'll agree that it's not above 50% total. But whatever the value is, it seems to work for me: most teamgames i play end up with the team having at least some kind of a plan. Sometimes only like 30% of the people support the plan, of course. But often even that is enough compared to "no plan".
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