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Title: MM 4197: 1v1, Rank Singularity
Host: Nobody
Game version: Zero-K v1.8.11.3
Engine version: 104.0.1-1544-ge1f249f
Started: 3 years ago
Duration: 11 minutes
Players: 2
Bots: False
Mission: False
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Team 1
Chance of victory: 44.6%

RUrankizirayd
Team 2
Chance of victory: 55.4%

GBrankPRO_Dregs

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3 years ago
I decided, just for the sake of experiment, to choose a shield factory. Instantly I get kodachi in response and the game can be considered lost due to the choice of the factory. I already wrote before what the table of factories' strength looks like, the point is that if you want to win, you must follow the rule, never use weak factories.

In this case, the kodachi creates pressure, the game for the kodachi is quite simple, it requires constant pressure and the creation of a raid threat in all directions, while the kodachi is forbidden to suicide. Dregs did not play perfectly here for the kodachi, the less pressure was enough so that the dregs would get an economic advantage and be able to get emissaries against which the shields are not able to do anything. There is simply no sub-artillery stage, and this is the only strong side of the shields. Not there due to the domination of the kodachi and the transition to the artillery stage. It's obviously best to never use shields in the current meta
+0 / -0


3 years ago
I made a similarly strong post against shieldbots yesterday and I think it's less extreme than "you can't pick shieldbots". It's just "factory RPS exists". And that does suck. We barely get to play because of the small pool of players, and yes, a lot of games are decided at the point of factory choice.

Maybe rather than focusing on individual factories every time it happens, we might be wiser just saying (again) factory RPS is a problem, how can we fix it?
+0 / -0


3 years ago
Push with a thuglaw+rogue ball. Tank (well, everything that's not cloak) struggles to stop that (Emissary's damage is way too low) and it murders non-Faraday porc easily (and even Faradays with some micro).
+0 / -0

3 years ago
Balancing this game is an unenviable task. A great strength of Zero-K is the multitude of factories we have at out finger tips as viable opening options with varied strengths, however the price to pay for this is that with every viable lab it gets much harder to balance.

If, for example, there was a total of 3 factory types, there would be 3 match-ups to balance, with 8 there are 28 match-ups (not including mirrors), you tweak a unit in lab X, it affects 7 match-ups.

I think achieving perfect balance with this in mind is virtually unattainable, though striving to get there still has to be the ultimate goal.
+3 / -0


3 years ago
Thus randy, why I stand by the assertion that it has to be made possible outside of the factories themselves (generics, commanders and so forth).
+0 / -0
That certainly looks like quite a tricky matchup. The fact that a Kodachi can chase down and kill a lone Bandit makes it difficult to be out on the map. I'm not saying the matchup works, but here are some things I'd like to see tried based on this game:
  • Running at Kodachi with Bandit barely ever works, but keeping them at a safe distance can be quite micro intensive. I improved idle behaviour on so perhaps try setting Bandits off Hold Position.
  • Perhaps try placing a hopeful Snitch in likely locations, such as in front of a lone Lotus. I don't know if I want to balance around the swingy nature of Snitch, but it exists so it may as well be tried.
  • An early Sparrow would help Shieldbots find profitable raiding angles and let them avoid Kodachis. I found success with Sparrow a few months ago while testing out Amph, and the idea should be similar.
  • Kodachi has really poor basic DPS/Cost for a raider, making it terrible at draining shields. An early Thug + Outlaw pair seems like it would be hard for Tank to respond to, forcing a lot of turrets or attention from the Kodachis.
  • Tank isn't great vs Thug in general. I think a midgame shieldball should be mostly Thug rather than an equal mix of Thug, Felon and Outlaw. The Felons were running out of charge rapidly.
  • An early Felon may be able to exert pressure on Kodachi. The Bandit would encourage Kodachi to sit at range while the Felon would encourage them to dive.
+0 / -0


3 years ago
I'm really unsure about how enticing diving Kodachi into Felon really sounds. Felon is slower, so i think rather than face its death ray the Kodachi player is enticed to try to go around, bait bandits info intercepting, then kill some and go rest.
+0 / -0


3 years ago
You put the Bandit near the Felon and pressure defenses. Use a few other Bandits with Lotus to defend. It will be really timing dependent and is just something to try.
+0 / -0