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Cheese Fails Zero-K

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3 years ago
I got this definition not long time ago but I suddenly remembered about Cheese Fails Starcraft 2 videos by LAGTV a couple of years ago.

I wish if there is any battle in this game that involves cheesing and make commentary about it. At least tell LAGTV about this game and submit the ZK cheese fail battles.

I mean I could make the videos by myself but I need to refine my current art project that I am currently working on.
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3 years ago
I really think we should be focusing on success instead of failures.

If we focused on the failures of cheeses, we'd have to list almost every other battle in big teams.
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3 years ago
I was thinking it's just for entertainment.
Was thinking of LAGTV spitting their words on the fails, just like what they did in SC2.
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3 years ago
I'll make a cheese fail video whenever I encounter it in the wild, sure.
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3 years ago
The successes of cheeses are often far more entertaining than the failures and inspire others to be bold. Why do we even find it funny for others to fail? Why can't we focus on the successes? Make this new year the year of positivity. Instead of cheese failures, let's make cheese successes a thing. It will make those who are successful feel better. That's what we all need after a tumultuous 2020.
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3 years ago
I kinda agree with that, unknownrankShaman
but the commentary language may be different
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3 years ago
Play is play unknownrankShaman. Maybe just cheese in general, fail or not, is good to spotlight. If I spotlight failures, you can be damn sure I'll be explaining why it failed to the benefit of the person performing it. If they succeed, happy to explain what the defending player could do too. It need not be a negativity/positivity thing at all.
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It often feels like we're putting way too much spotlight on what doesn't work in my opinion and spotlighting failures may be embarrassing to those who do not want the spotlight. Do we see any "Game play successes" being focused on? We have an "In-game failure" thread, and some people certainly comment on their own victories.

How about a compromise then: make a middle ground without any specific focus if the motive is to help better people. If there's no specific spotlight, this better makes that motive and avoids the positivity/negativity argument. Focusing only on failures just creates an undercurrent of undesirable feelings. (I'm unsure of the exact wording as I'm a bit sleep deprived, but there is a feeling of something close to hostility but words fail me right now.)

Edit:
I now realize that is your suggestion. I'm really just too tired right now to properly communicate/interpret.
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If we had a set of well-known cheese strats that people were frequently getting pissed off at, or cheese in general was a major factor in game enjoyment for basically everyone, then it would make sense. StarCraft has a lot of well-known cheese strats, generally involving building a military in an unsafe way near the opponent's base, which is a PITA in StarCraft because of how long it takes to get an army going safely (about 90 seconds). These are particularly frustrating because they are basically "not playing the normal way", as they focus on an all-or-nothing opening instead of playing the economy game and doing safer builds. Having a cheese failure compilation is cathartic simply because it gives the playerbase, who have extensive experience being crushed by cheese, a chance to see the cheese strats that ruined their day get their comeuppance.

With Zero-K, having a super-early army and rushing the opponent in a super-early attack to potentially take the game is "playing the normal way", and the game provides the defender ample tools to deal with it. I guess if people started doing stuff like troll comm rushes or walking their comm over to their opponent's start location before plopping it might count, or burning their entire opening resource storage on raiders to try to get an extra 3 or 4 raiders instead of any early mexes or power plants. Even then, in the first two cases someone building normally will have a major advantage in army size, and in the all-in military case, it would have maybe a 10 second window (map-dependent) before the player that got some mexes is able to outbuild the player relying entirely on comm income. The only strats I can think of (at least in 1v1) that have come close to a proper all-or-nothing hard to counter cheese strat are blastwing rushes and scythe rushes, and I'm not sure either even really work anymore, just because mexes got tankier.
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There really aren't any cheese strategies anymore :/ . AUrankAdminGoogleFrog has sucessfully managed to eliminate all of them. I wish I was kidding or exagerrating, but I am still salty about how I years ago used a Commander drop against AUrankAdminGoogleFrog using the heavy transport, and then after that the cost of the heavy transport was increased from 500 to 750.

It's a shame. The rushes were fun to play, interesting to defend against and hilarious to watch as a spectator.

EDIT: Okay, I might have unfairly misremebered that the balance change happened half a year after the battle, but the rest isn't that wrong.
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3 years ago
I have one: Multiplayer B989467 2 on Vantage v1.2
Very close game.
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I'm not sure it's easy to laugh at a failed strategy when you don't even know the strategy and its outcome. And there are maybe a handful of players that know the currently achievable zk cheeses (I wouldn't count myself).

CZrankpsaniac I like to think the same, but I see it as a plus point.
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