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Title: MM 1668: 1v1, Rank Singularity
Host: Nobody
Game version: Zero-K v1.9.1.1
Engine version: 104.0.1-1544-ge1f249f
Battle ID: 1049938
Started: 3 years ago
Duration: 4 minutes
Players: 2
Bots: False
Mission: False
Rating: Competitive
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Team 1
Chance of victory: 85.2%

CHrankAdminDeinFreund
Team 2
Chance of victory: 14.8%

BYrankSubintroierunt
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USrankyyxreht

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3 years ago
If there are any doubts whether Outlaw needs buff, here you can see it failing against cornered Glaives.
+2 / -0
3 years ago
quote:
If there are any doubts whether Outlaw needs buff, here you can see it failing against cornered Glaives.


I've requested this several times, but the shield faction should be in the trash
+0 / -0

3 years ago
bot-players are a sad group atm
+0 / -0
Different units from the same class (in this case riots) have different strengths and weaknesses in different circumstances. One of Outlaw's characteristic weaknesses is that it is not strong when used on its own and it does not surprise me that a single Outlaw would lose to five Glaives running at it. Shieldbots as a whole may not be doing that well at the moment, but this game does not move me in the direction of thinking that specifically Outlaw needs a buff.
+1 / -0
3 years ago
As a sidenote, are double Outlaws good against high weight raiders like Blitz, Kodachi, Pyro?
+0 / -0

3 years ago
I doubt they would be good against Blitz (too much hp) or Kodachi (autorepair). They might work against Pyro, but Bandits backed by well placed Snitches or Racketeers would probably work better.
+1 / -0


3 years ago
quote:
If there are any doubts whether Outlaw needs buff, here you can see it failing against cornered Glaives.

Maybe, but only a very slight one. Outlaw is so good at protecting a ball of units against raiders that it has to be a bit bad by itself. Outlaw was preventing any attempt to fight shieldballs at short range with fairly tanky units recently, with very similar stats. It's interaction while alone against five Glaives is a data point, but it isn't far outside what I consider to be working as intended.
+3 / -0
Could we maybe get more damage and less slow? Raiders are very fragile and friendly shields do the job of shielding the outlaw. There are quite a few units that suffer heavily from being slowed, but raiders are fairly unique in how fragile they are. So damage might achieve a more focused anti-raider role while also making Outlaws much less annoying to play against.

If you think slow is the "special strength" of Outlaw that should be buffed according to Quant's rule, couldn't that be the ability to shoot through allies, having no teamdamage and affecting everyone in a radius? Slow is not very unique and always very annoying since it removes tactical options from the opponent.
+1 / -0

3 years ago
How many glaives would an outlaw kill when paired with 1 thug? Can't just think of these things in a vacuum.
+2 / -0
More damage and less slow would be a route I would take if it looked like Outlaw needed a buff specifically against raiders, or a nerf against non-raiders. Possibly in conjunction with a bit more edge effectiveness. The edge effectiveness parameter is hard to get a feel for.
+2 / -0
Isn't that exactly the problem - Outlaw in balls being too effective against "everything"? (You said "fairly tanky units") You can invert it and just reduce slow if it has to be a nerf.

@randy agreed, but I think slow combines much more effectively with Thugs than normal damage. So this will both make Outlaw better and Thuglaw worse (relatively). In general I would be against this, but right now it seems to have gotten to the point where Thuglaw is so strong, Outlaw doesn't have any power left by itself.
+0 / -0


3 years ago
Yes, but my aim isn't to make all riots have the same usefulness profile across all tasks.
+1 / -0

3 years ago
Keep in mind shieldfac already has an anti-raider oriented unit in Snitch.

I believe Outlaw's slow was originally designed to supplement Bandits, not shieldballs. Back then Bandit was all about its range while Peewee/Flash had superior speed and DPS, both of which were gimped by Outlaw allowing Bandit to kite.
+2 / -0
3 years ago
Outlaw isn't a unit that should be used alone.

I mean the whole concept of the shield factory turns around clustering the right combinations.


Also i don't think shields are weak at the moment.
+2 / -0