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Title: [A] Teams All Welcome
Host: Nobody
Game version: Zero-K v1.9.4.3
Engine version: 104.0.1-1544-ge1f249f
Started: 2 years ago
Duration: 9 minutes
Players: 30
Bots: False
Mission: False
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I know a lot of people dislike clans,
I on the other hand are somewhat sad that you seem to need them just to get this:


For once i don`t want to shit on my team-mates (shout-outs especially to DErankSpon21 who was very useful and ambitious through all the games i have played with them),
but this is to show that you seem to be in close communication to get attentive and remotely organised team-play. If we are asked to accept all kinds of skill-levels in game, please accept our desire for some organisation to be possible as well.
+2 / -0


2 years ago
Me and FIrankterve886 thought of rerunning ADVENT, but tarkov gunfire and the soon barrotrauma update is making that ambition hard.
+1 / -0

2 years ago
S...?
+0 / -0
quote:
S...?



There is only one purple player here on the same team as mumble, and he's also part of the mumble clan, so that's a bit ironic.

That said,

Run for your life.
+1 / -0
Yeah i forgot CArankSippio is also purple...

But ROrankSigero killed 9 coms, 1 russian tank battalion and 3 british Antarctica-expeditions in that game to be fair.
+2 / -0
i was rushing a lance and was taking back mexes,my lance helped hold that front spot you held so heroicly with a stinger.
+0 / -0

2 years ago
I don't know about anybody else, but when I play in "close communication" with other people on my team and get a competitive advantage through so doing, the fun in that is playing against other teams with the same advantage, not curb-stomping teams that don't have it. The latter seems like it would get old pretty quick. But maybe that's just me.
+2 / -0
Well AUrankAdminAquanim, tell me where this other team is supposed to be at atm?
Sure there are other clans, but no real competition. 5 of the top 20 ranked players at the moment are Mumble members. And this isnt even the "worst" case we ever had.
A few months ago, i posted this in our clan chat:
-----
[Spoiler]
-----


If Manu would have just played a few games, we would have had 10 players in the top 45...



But it aren't all stomps. Most Mumble players are so well ranked by now that usually, we get stacked quite hard.

+0 / -0
I agree with you AUrankAdminAquanim, "curb-stomping" is not fun if I am on the winning side either. But if you think our communication would allow us to do that by default on a regular basis you grossly misinterpret our reality:
For example:

https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1092921

https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1092896

https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1092855

At that say, i played around 10 games, lost 8, won 2.

I actually don`t know what LUrankAdminAnir is going on about... We get stacked so hard usually it`s not funny. And once we win, the complains start.
Also,
1. Mumble is not exclusive
2. Aren`t there more players on Discord than in the lobby all the time? Voice-communication is no privilege exclusive to us.

3. For the curb-stomp i blame a map that is so narrow that 1 stinger insta-blocks ~50% of the passway...
+0 / -0


2 years ago
I favour this kind of aggressive curb stomp until the meta demands more clans/cooperation. Sit back and make arty is an awful meta for us to be stuck in, and deserves more punishment
+2 / -0

2 years ago
Comunication is important,but... in most cases we dont really inhabit the same lanes and comunication dont play a big factor anymore.
And rushing forward means we will fight entire enemy team and get stomped quite quickly,this is what usually happens,this game is an exception were the enemy team was not very active at the frontline and just porced in front of theyre base instead of making units and crushing our rush.

On another note,because we get stacked and must spread across the front such that we hold the frontline while half our team rushes stupid stuff in the back comunication will not help since everyone is "alone".
+0 / -0
quote:
At that say, i played around 10 games, lost 8, won 2.

My observation is generally that the mumble stack is hilariously antisynergetic.

The more mumblers you have on the same team, the less likely the victory.

This is a hunch, i haven't really done any data mining on this.

If true, then my explanation for this is that most of the talk bandwidth gets spent on things unrelated to winning, which is paradoxically how you get so much mumble in top20: not by boosting the performance of each player, but by boosting the social cohesion of already strong players - so that they stay being mumble.

I'm pretty sure Sigero in particular would still be #2 if he ditched voice.
+1 / -0
My point was, should we stop to play as a team just because we dont have another team that would balance us out?


And it is true, we loose many games due to getting stacked hard.
However, i would not totaly agree that its just so that mumble is good at keeping their good players withhin the clan. Or that we don't communicate at all. (Not denying that sometimes its not very usefull, but most often in critical situations, it works very well, or coordinated attacks/sharring early battle plans quickly)

Because looking back in history, most mumble players joined, before they were ranked so well.
I remember, that I myself gained around 300 (back then elo) points due to better coordination with teammates, and incredibly high winrates for a few months unitl I reached my "new" ranking.
And looking at it, this is the case for many players. Good examples are DErankkatastrophe, ATrankRomux, DErankTopkack, DErankAdminmojjj, NZrankesainane and myself.

A good indicator for this is that this type of players is typically weaker in 1v1 scenarios then in teamgames. Not saying they can't/haven't improved in this field later on.
+2 / -0
quote:
Because looking back in history, most mumble players joined, before they were ranked so well.

Unsure if this isn't regression to the mean. Most of the players eventually improve somewhat. Having playmates tends to accelerate the learning.

quote:
A good indicator for this is that this type of players is typically weaker in 1v1 scenarios then in teamgames. Not saying they can't/haven't improved in this field later on.

The list of typical players you listed kind of defeats this claim, at least for the latter two who i've had the honor of duelling.

This is perhaps easier to check though via comparing casual vs mm rating trends.

Here's yours:

[Spoiler]
+0 / -0
2 years ago
Well, i am not 100% certain for esanaime, but myself, I was certainly way stronger in teamgames then in 1v1. Nowadays, its probably even.
I don't have hard evidence to support what i am saying.


But it is a very interesting topic.
+0 / -0
You can't compare both charts, just the player amount is way bigger in casual.

And, even so, it still supports my claim, at the beginning, more or less half my time as a player, eg. 4 years or so, i was constantly way better as a team player then 1v1 player.
Even at some points improving on it way faster then as a 1v1 player.

Also worth noticing, that closer to the end, i am sometimes dropping as a 1v1 player while getting better as a teamplayer.

Ps. How did you show them both at the same time?
+0 / -0
quote:
Ps. How did you show them both at the same time?

I copied both as image and overlayed Casual over MM as a layer with Dodge filter in Gimp. Then i rescaled Casual vertically so that its 2600 and 1400 lines would match MM.

quote:
And, even so, it still supports my claim, at the beginning, more or less half my time as a player, eg. 4 years or so, i was constantly way better as a team player then 1v1 player.
Even at some points improving on it way faster then as a 1v1 player.

It could also be simply that you learn teams skills quicker because they can be directly copied from teammates by imitation. Then you start improving on your own, leaving the teachers behind. This model predicts that a high-skill player joining Mumble will not increase their rating.
+1 / -0
Teaching was the thing mumble-clan was primarily about when i joined back in the days when it was basically me, DErankChesti, LVrankSenaven and ZArankUnifiedTheory. And we teach by pointing out what goes wrong and should not be done (a.k.a "OMG that guys com wouldnt have been captured by domis if it actually moved instead of constantly marking them").



Also:

quote:
My observation is generally that the mumble stack is hilariously antisynergetic.


Yes, that is my observation as well.

quote:
It could also be simply that you learn teams skills quicker because they can be directly copied from teammates by imitation. Then you start improving on your own, leaving the teachers behind. This model predicts that a high-skill player joining Mumble will not increase their rating.


But it is hard to know WHAT to imitate, because you need to know the difference of what works just now and what works "objectively". Mumble-Clan offers a possibility to have many good players discuss their interpretaitions of how this game should be played. That is the actual thing next to having a quasi-living-room to hang out with your friends...

quote:
I'm pretty sure Sigero in particular would still be #2 if he ditched voice.


?????
+0 / -0


2 years ago
quote:
?????

?????
+0 / -0
I read it as "would still be" as -> "is not anymore".
Got the other meaning of it now. English is so imprecise...

Idk, if i was interested in winning more I would leave the clan. But we need each other to be able to complain outside of public chat...
+2 / -0
Page of 2 (21 records)