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Practical unit handling

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10 years ago
There are many strategy and unit guides around, which is good reference for a new player.

However, I often feel stumped during the game how to manage units on a practical level. Everything happens very quickly and I may have a tactical plan, but I cannot implement it because I'm too clunky with the UI. Well, not UI, but how to get my units to do the things I want.

I usually have a factory rally point which brings units near the front line. I use autogroups to have glaives in group 1, rockos in 2 and so forth. This is handy, because new units get added automatically to the group and my army stays constant with a influx of new units replacing the dying ones. I can quickly react to things by choosing autogroup 1 (the glaives) to intercept raiders approaching my rocko-line (autogroup 2). The problems are: i) factory rally point often results in a clump of units, which never reach the rally point and are thus not added to the autogroup: they just sit at the rally point doing nothing until I intervene. ii) I cannot do specialized tasks, like making a two special teams of units that would circle and flank the enemy. Any quick autogroup command and the special teams forget their original orders.

How do experienced players handle their units on a practical level? Do you use autogroups and factory rally points? How do you avoid the problems I presented? Or do you use special groups with CTRL+number, but how do you replenish the group with new units without ending up in a management hell? Or do you do use the guard-command, like selecting a single powerful unit, putting him to do some tasks and assign some units to guard him.

How do you manage the multitasking?
+3 / -0

10 years ago
For me; i use ctrl+number to group stuff. Reset the exit point of a factory too.

You should play zoomed out a lot to manage multiple armies.

Use fight move a lot.
You can set retreat zones.
Use hotkeys for selections and buildings.

Just be fast with your mouse. Nothing much to add to that.

I'd disable autogroup if i where you though. It limits your ability to manage multiple armies.
+1 / -0
Skasi
I'm not using autogroup. For me CTRL+X/Z is the way to go, though I rebound CTRL Z to CTRL Y, because Y and Z are swapped on qwertz keyboards.

These hotkeys select all units of the currently selected type(s), that is if you currently have a Glaive and a Rocko selected it selects Glaives and Rockos. CTRL X does this for any visible units (as in: "on your screen"), CTRL Z does this for units all over the map. This is essential for the "replenish a group with new units" problem you mention.

Usually CTRL+Number is used after CTRL+X/Z selections, especially for units behind enemy lines as they usually require the most micro.

For my factory waypoint I use a Fight-command to get builders to auto-assist and other units to engage enemies they encounter on their way. Note that I do not set my waypoint to the very front, this is just for when unexpected things happen on their travel.

To stop units from piling up too much, I usually check on front units every now and then to draw new custom formations or engage targets and while doing that I add the idle units using above hotkeys. On some occations I adjust the factory waypoint.

That said, I only play team games.
+0 / -0
10 years ago
I use two hotkeys very much:
ctrl+z - select all units of same on map
ctrl+u - select all units of same on screen (think this one is non-default)

Then instead of autogroup I use these keys to select lots of units and assign group numbers.
But usually I just do
ctrl+1 = main army
ctrl+2,3 = special units (early scouts, gunship swarm)
ctrl+0 = long range stuff (Berthas,Silos: so can retarget without scrolling to base)

quote:
I can quickly react to things by choosing autogroup 1 (the glaives) to intercept raiders approaching
For this I would click one glaive, then ctrl+u (=all glaives on screen)

quote:
they just sit at the rally point doing nothing until I intervene
I always start my waypoints from factory with a fight-command.
Constructors with fight-command will try to repair/assist near units so they automatically get "filtered" to stay at factory and boost it. When the factory stops building/is destroyed they will go do other things on their own: This is advantage over use guard-command.
The end of factory rally point is either just move command, if the map has a chokepoint.
If the map is more open, then I end the waypoints with some patrol commands so that units randomly wiggle around the base. Sometimes it is also good to end the waypoint on your Commander, so that units will go to where your moving Commander is.
It is worth "optimizing" these waypoints a bit, for example if units always get stuck at a cliff then set the waypoints around it. The first waypoint should always be straight out from factory, that way units have least problems to exit factory.
+0 / -0

10 years ago
Very interesting. How do you disable autogroup? I have all units already autogrouped now from past games...
+0 / -0
Arg, looks like autogroup is enabled by default. I think it shouldn't be.
+0 / -0
10 years ago
I put my current main factory to 9, my com to 0 - the right side of 9.
8 are some constructors

My com almost always is high priority builder (good for storages) and micro-managed early or guarding my factory / building something special.

The factory itself is low-priority - the frame and surrounding nanos inherit this.
Mexes, solar and wind are high priority by default.

1 constructor is increasing my energy, only if the priority factory builder doesn't need it, nothing else has high priority.

1 is my main army. 2-7 are single silo units, berthas, or different types (air, etc)
+0 / -0
I use control-z, double click, and bandboxes when zoomed out, but it limits my ability to split units into firegroups. I often find myself accidently control-zing all my units to respond to a new threat, and bringing back my raider group and having to go back and re-do their orders. I have the APM to do this but need to still adjust my style so this doesn't happen.

If Autogroup is working correctly you should be able to add a fire group to a new number assignment and new units wont be added to it/the units wont be added to their default group. This way you can create firegroups just by assigning them to another number. I don't use it though.
+1 / -0


10 years ago
There is an autogroup option to immediately add units from factory, rather than waiting for them to stop moving post-construction, that may help for using autogroups.

Also, FIrankSotha781, are you using line-move (that is, clicking and dragging a line)? Zero-K is largely designed around that UI feature, as units cannot shoot through each other, so using that to move units is fairly necessary.
+1 / -0
10 years ago
Hey! Thanks for the replies and tips.

CTRL+Z and CTRL+X seem to work for me quite nicely, at least in a quick test game against CAI. I seem to prefer that over autogroup (AG), however, AG seems to be perfectly suited for quickly-built-and-quickly-dying units, like Glaives.
+0 / -0


10 years ago
quote:
factory rally point often results in a clump of units, which never reach the rally point and are thus not added to the autogroup: they just sit at the rally point doing nothing until I intervene.

As Shadowfury333 noted, there is an option in the settings menu that solves this problem. Set it and units will be joined to their autogroup when built rather than when reaching their rally point.

I'm not exactly the person you want to emulate, but I do use autogroup (and I have it set to "join when built"). I have autogroups for raiders, riots, skirms, assaults, artillery, and aa.

I also have a couple of group numbers reserved for ad-hoc strike teams. As Saktoth noted, you can take some autogrouped units and put them in a different group without affecting the rest of the autogrouped units. So my main force will have the different types of units each in their dedicated autogroups so I can retreat all my glaives while advancing all my rockos, for example. But a separate combined force of glaives and warriors might be together in a different group headed off to exploit a gap in my neighbor's front.

Even with groups and autogroups, using ctrl-x / box selection is still a great way to get THESE UNITS RIGHT HERE to go KILL THAT THING RIGHT THERE RIGHT NOW.

Because I use autogroups, I rarely use ctrl-z. I can usually select "all of this type of unit" by pressing that unit's group number. Doing that also doesn't select the units that were moved to an ad-hoc stike team, which is good, because I don't have Saktoth's APM to fix my mistakes. :) Still, ctrl-z is insanely handy and you should get your mind and your fingers used to it; even with autogroups, there's often a time when I want to select all of SOMETHING that isn't already grouped.

quote:
my army stays constant with a influx of new units replacing the dying ones

Bear in mind that this can lead to trouble, too. Adding a unit to a losing squad just means you're going to lose that unit as well. You may want to pull the squad back so that it's not dying, wait for enough reinforcements to arrive, and then attack in strength. Autogroup will help with that, too, since the reinforcements will automatically catch up with the squad while it's retreating and rallying.

quote:
I cannot do specialized tasks, like making a two special teams of units that would circle and flank the enemy. Any quick autogroup command and the special teams forget their original orders.

If I'm understanding you, then the solution to your problem is to assign the special teams to their own ad-hoc group numbers. Then when you select the autogrouped group and give a command, the special teams will not be selected and will retain their previous orders.
+0 / -0


10 years ago
quote:
Arg, looks like autogroup is enabled by default. I think it shouldn't be.

No need to disable autogroup. It's not used until you explicitly assign a unit class to an autogroup using alt-number. If you never do that, then it's effectively disabled.
+1 / -0
As long as autogroup doesn't preserve assigned groups by default, I think it can be default on. I know that sounds like a weird reasoning, but considering that unbinding autogroups isn't the best documented feature (alt+key to left of '1' ('`' on QWERTY keyboards), btw), having autogroups from the previous game would impose it on you even if you just played around with it, or accidentally hit alt when you meant to hit ctrl when hitting a number.
+1 / -0


10 years ago
I'd forgotten that "Preserve Auto Groups" was a setting, let alone that it's off by default. I guess it's safer to have it off by default, but certainly less useful. Still, anyone who decides that autogroups is a thing for them can find that setting and change it easily enough.

Quite true that the unbind-autogroup-from-this-unit-class command is somewhat obscure. Unbinding ALL autogroups is fortunately much easier to find - there's a button for it right there in the settings menu.
+1 / -0
For me, it is most difficult to keep track of what is auto-grouped and to find the use-age description in-game.

Does my auto-group also include the factory? somewhat annoying, as a move order would reset a jump (jump fac) or patrol (planes).
+0 / -0


10 years ago
quote:
For me, it is most difficult to keep track of what is auto-grouped and to find the use-age description in-game.

I don't use autogroup dynamically. I've set it once and now leave it alone forever. I don't have to keep track of what's autogrouped. Instead, I came up with a grouping scheme that I like, and now I just automatically use that every game without having to mess with the autogroup commands any further.

I use this scheme:

1 - Raiders
2 - Riots
3 - Skirmishers
4 - Assaults
5 - Artillery
9 - AA

I don't need to remember the autogroup commands unless I decide to change my group scheme.

Good players probably won't find this very helpful since they'll be using multiple factories simultaneously with multiple armies on multiple fronts, each with mixed unit compositions. But I'm not a good player. This works very well for basic one-factory squad management, which is what I'm mostly doing right now.

quote:
Does my auto-group also include the factory? somewhat annoying, as a move order would reset a jump (jump fac) or patrol (planes).

It doesn't include the factory.
+0 / -0
I can tell you that by default, autogroup settins IS preserved, since all my autogroup numbers have always been preserved without my even knowing that there was a setting for this.
+2 / -0


10 years ago
He's right, I just checked. Like I said, I think that should be off by default, otherwise it can easily confuse people and be imposing.
+1 / -0


10 years ago
I use ctrl-z, select all on screen and a lot of line moving.
+0 / -0

10 years ago
I don't use control groups but maybe I should. I mainly just use ctrl-z and selection boxes

To avoid waypoint clump, sometimes I will set waypoint, then hold shift and press P and set a 2nd waypoint to give the units a patrol path. This is only really useful if you are too slow to use the units properly

Using fight command 'f' is also very useful for getting your units to fight without having to micro all the time, don't forget you can use custom formations with fight, patrol or attack commands the same way you do with move commands (select group of units, press f and drag a line behind the enemy units)

If you really want to get better at multitasking, one of the best things you can do is learn to use keybinds, even the simplest keybinds like z for mexes and x for energy will give you so much more time to do other things
+0 / -0
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