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Contest: Defeating the Mace as LV

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EErankAdminAnarchid
9 years ago
It has been raised that maybe mace is just a bit too good against light vehicles.

This might or might not be a metagame thing, so how about a little contest for finding a valid counter?

The rules are simple. There are two disciplines in which you can participate:

1) Defeating a single, well-microed Mace with a group of combat Light Vehicles costing at most 400 metal.

2) Defeating a well-microed group of 5 maces with a group of combat Light Vehicles costing at most 2000 metal.

If it is not possible to win the contest under those conditions, just submit your attempts and we'll see who scores cheapest.

Validation of submissions will be done in glorious honorable 1v1. I'm willing to bank any amount of elo by playing the maces.
+3 / -0
GBrankKyubey
9 years ago
http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/273246

it can be done with 3 levelers and 8 slashers, although even then it is a fairly even matchup
+1 / -0
FIrankFFC
9 years ago
bu..domi?
+1 / -0


EErankAdminAnarchid
9 years ago
(edited 9 years ago)
quote:
bu..domi?

Apparently, not. But if you submit it as your solution, feel free to pwn me and grab precious 30 elonz.
+0 / -0

GBrankTheEloIsALie
9 years ago
Anarchid is trying to smurf! D:

Just kidding, this is a refreshing way of testing balance :)
+0 / -0
DErank[2up]knorke
9 years ago
Trick question detected. There is no need for LV to fight Mace head-on with armies of equal value.
Mace is slow and LV is fast. When attacking you go around it: split up or just use the speed advantage. When defending you always have more units near: Commander, defenders(!) or cons.
+0 / -0

GBrankTheEloIsALie
9 years ago
The question is still whether you can trade cost effectively, even when defending. I mean, if he attacks with maces on two fronts, you can only have your com on one. And saying that you'll have defenders everywhere anyways... not sure if that's what you want to base balance on.
+0 / -0
GBrankKyubey
9 years ago
:P slashers are stronk vs mace when on the defencive
if you can pick a good place to slasher the mace, and have slightly more slasher then mace... then you can slash mace

and slashers are great vs all other hovers too
+0 / -0


EErankAdminAnarchid
9 years ago
(edited 9 years ago)
quote:
There is no need for LV to fight Mace head-on with armies of equal value.
Mace is slow and LV is fast

1) Mace is not really "slow".
2) If everything else can fight it, while you have to go around, then you are playing a handicap factory.

quote:
Anarchid is trying to smurf! D:

More like tanking my elo. Though i very much doubt anyone will win this.

quote:
:P slashers are stronk vs mace when on the defencive

The specific force composition you laid out earlier (slasher+leveler) sounds like a very fragile thing to bet on, especially if you need to catch the mace-line in a T enfilade. However, you get bonus points for using things that put the hurt on Daggers as well.

Wanna play it out?
+0 / -0
GBrankKyubey
9 years ago
yes i wouldnt mind testing this when i get back in the evning
+0 / -0


EErankAdminAnarchid
9 years ago
Map? Avalanche? Into Battle? Red Comet?
+0 / -0
GBrankKyubey
9 years ago
avalanche should be fine, into battle has chokepoints that would make this strategy imposible... and red commet is for scrubber spam
+0 / -0

AUrankSnuggleBass
8 years ago
Sorry for rez but...

WTF? Was this actually a thing? The nerf to mace wasn't that big was it? Did wolverine not exist or was it not allowed? Was domi unable to kite it? Was this what caused the mace nerf?

Nice balance testing though.
+0 / -0


EErankAdminAnarchid
8 years ago
(edited 8 years ago)
It was a thing. Consider not just the mace nerf, but that the situation happened after LV were hit with nerfs repeatedly and Dagger was still strong. Hovers had 70% win rate on flats in 1800+ skill group. Wolverine couldn't skirmish and had an ugly disk mine. These were the darkest days.

Domi was unable to kite Mace reasonably, unless Mace player was stupid. As in, if domi managed to do an U-turn in time to meet mace while retreating and started to skirmish the Mace, all Mace had to do was stop pursuit, walk off the capture damage, and renew the attempt. This was tested with elo on the table; see the replay in fourth post.

Current Scalpel just does not stand up to the horror and darkness of that bitter age. Then the new aerodynamic mine shell was developed for the Wolverine by the forces of darkness, which allowed Wolverines to fire on the move, and darkness extinguished darkness.
+4 / -0
AUrankSmokeDragon
8 years ago
(edited 8 years ago)
wolverine can area-denial but if its getting charged it must outrun.. and mace are fast

i know nothing of domi as they are unused by players
other then they cause bloodlust wrath and incentivise an enemy to charge you furiously with raiders, air and or everything in a desperate attempt to free the captured units
+0 / -0

PLrankAdminSprung
8 years ago
quote:
Was domi unable to kite it?

Domi was unable to survive because Raven happened more.
+1 / -0

EErank[ISP]Lauri
8 years ago
(edited 8 years ago)
AUrankSnuggleBass
It was a broken unit in the matchup. Abuse in action:

Getting free wins with a unit nobody expected to be good was fun (it always is). Note in that game I hadn't yet discovered their true power myself - I actually used other units.

In the next games I pretty much put Mace on repeat after making three Daggers until I either won or a truly unholy amount of defences were erected by the enemy.
+0 / -0

AUrankAdminAquanim
8 years ago
(edited 8 years ago)
I suspect Mace is currently better than it's given credit for. The old "rush a Mace and comwalk" strat is still viable, though possibly only because it's no longer in the meta. I experimented with Mace/Halberd once or twice and found it was a reasonable composition too.

Mace is overshadowed by Scalpel at the moment, though.

quote:
Wolverine... had an ugly disk mine.

Priorities.
+1 / -0


USrank[GBC]1v0ry_k1ng
8 years ago
Mace before the range nerf & wolverine made viable was an absolute slaughter machine.

Rush a Mace and comwalk suffers in the current meta of defender spam, slashers & scalpels.
+0 / -0


AUrankAdminGoogleFrog
8 years ago
Mace had:
  • 25% less acceleration.
  • 35% less break rate.
  • 35% less turn rate.
  • Range 355 -> 345
  • Speed 2.2 -> 2.1
+2 / -0
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