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Phoenix napalm idea

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The thing with Phoenix is that it fills its niche in a wrong way (imo) since it has really a trouble hitting any raiders unless it is used in great numbers, wich with addition of hard controlls is an rarely used unit overall, because people just prefer to make raven spams and as riot they jusy use either swift or even wyvern (or they even ignore the riot aspect of air). I think I have developed a solution to that:

Now how does phoenix deal damage? It drops its napalm bombs onto its enemies. But the thing is that they dont really feel like napalm bombs. They are more like fire bombs snice the napalm despite the visual effects doesnt harm units that enter vicinity unlike how infernos' or kodachis' napalm work. I say give it stay on the ground napalm like mentioned units have.

However how would it help phoenix to be a more vialable unit?
You see the thing with phoenixes is that once you do a line attack (wich is the most optimal way to use phoenix) its fly pattern becomes really predictable and ones' opponent can just dodge its flaming bombs (not napalm). Now if phoenix would have and stay on ground napalm it would just deny the raiders' march and make them change directions for some time or even retreat for a while.

Imo this (if applied) should also be followed with some sort of cost increase or DPS decrease so that these walls of napalm would not make phoenix OP in any way.

Since ZK already has the napalm feature why dont extend it to the phoenix? I would love to hear your opinions on my idea.
+5 / -0

9 years ago
This has been proposed before and I don't see a reason why not. It looks a bit weird when units run through burning Phoenix flames unharmed especially since they can't pull off the same thing with Firewalker flames.

Phoenix is very fragile for its cost and thus relatively easy to counter even with mobile ground AA (unlike some other bombers cough Raven *cough*) and it seems unlikely even such a significant improvement would make it too strong.
+4 / -0


9 years ago
Napalm is best against structures because they cannot run away. Raiders can run away rapidly so the current mechanic of setting them on fire works best for them. The visual effect is fine because the Pheonix napalm dissipates rapidly when it is dropped.

Also there is performance to think about. It sounds wasteful to do 20 or so unit-in-sphere checks for every Pheonix which has fired.
+0 / -0

9 years ago
...use bigger spheres.
+1 / -0
9 years ago
What if the pheonix's firebombs (assuming no napalm) simply homed in slightly on targets, similar to how the Recluse rockets can home slightly?
+0 / -0

9 years ago
recluses home? i thought they are just massively random inaccurate.
+3 / -0

9 years ago
How many bombs does a phoenix drop anyways? They're so tightly clustered that you can't really tell. If it was reduced to 3 well-spaced bomblets it might not be such a performance hog to make them deal the fireball damage.
+0 / -0
Recluses both home (8°/s) and wobble (up to 18°/s).
Phoenix drops 15 bomblets.
+4 / -0
quote:
Phoenix drops 15 bomblets.

So there are 15 reasons why u should make Ravens instead of Phoenixes.

C'mon fix it already, another reason it has huge problem dealing with light units (actually any units), is that stupid immediate auto retread mechanic wchih makes it bomb in banana shape ALL THE TIME. So it does hit the 1st unit its aiming at, but then rest of raiders are left unharmed becasue they werent in banana formation.

So either force all units which Phoenix is aiming to formate bananas, or fix the Phoenix.

What I suggest is (dunno if its even possible) somehow copying units formation. If Phoenix is told to attack lets say 10 packed units, it would attack (start dropping bombs at) the 1st (the closest) unit, and then all other attack commands would be immediate changed to move commands (so the Phoenix follows the pack formation) up to the point when Phoenix runs out of bombs, THEN it does a banana and returns home.

No more flaming bananas plox.
+1 / -0
Skasi
9 years ago
quote:
stupid immediate auto retread mechanic wchih makes it bomb in banana shape ALL THE TIME


All the time? You sure? What about players who control Phoenixes' dropping behavior, does it happen for them too? For me it doesn't. A way to give orders relative to unit position would be lulzy. Some sort of unitAI for phoenix that activates when multiple attack orders are given (eg hitting A, drawing an area) could be fun too though. Or something like "attack multiple units' average position". :)
+2 / -0

9 years ago
To be fair, the Thunderbird (with a similar, if not identical, bombing run principle) does not turn around like the Phoenix by default (though you can make it curve somewhat). Consistent behaviour between the two might be nice.
+3 / -0
9 years ago
quote:
What about players who control Phoenixes' dropping behavior, does it happen for them too? For me it doesn't.

Ye, thats not a problem if u have 1 Phenix. But what if u have 2 boming simultaneously? Or... 5? Or... 50?
+0 / -0
Skasi
9 years ago
AUrankAdminAquanim, that's because Thunderbird doesn't have bomblets. Its weapon always shoots straight downwards and doesn't throw anything. Not sure why you'd call it similar of even identical.

PLrankFailer, I don't see your problem. Just queue move commands for all of them?
+0 / -0

9 years ago
Skasi

A unit that does the dumbest possible thing by default is bad. ZK is supposed to allow micro but not require it for such units. This is not Street Fighter, throwing a fireball should not require down-roll-to-forward-punch.
+0 / -0
Skasi
9 years ago
Huh, that's not the dumbest possible thing. Turning around massively increases survival rates.
+0 / -0

9 years ago
Of the target.
+1 / -0
9 years ago
And the phoenix as well. Just notice how often thinderbird dies after its run.
+0 / -0
Skasi
quote:
Of the target.

Nah not really. Can you show me an example of where that happened and where flying straight would've helped? Maybe I can even help and teach if there was mismicro.
+1 / -0

9 years ago
Did you know that simply decreasing the time bomblets spend in the air after dropping and before hitting the ground (aka. increasing fall rate) could drastically increase pheonix accuracy?
+0 / -0
Why increase Phoenix accuracy? It's supposed to cover large areas because it's antiswarm.

Banana Bombing doesn't really matter vs light units because it obliterates them anyway, and against heavies you don't use Phoenix.

Banana Bombing is more useful than straight bombing eg. when the targets are in a line perpendicular to where you come from, which shuld be most of the time.

A powerful Phoenix is also not necessarily good for the game since it might shutdown light units too easily. Compare pre-nerf.
+0 / -0
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