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Title: MatchMaker 5397
Host: Nobody
Game version: Zero-K v1.6.5.6
Engine version: 104.0.1-287-gf7b0fcc
Started: 22 days ago
Duration: 24 minutes
Players: 2
Bots: False
Mission: False
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Team 1
Chance of victory: 29.9%

RUrankivand
Team 2
Chance of victory: 70.1%

CHrankDrDoom
Spectators

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Page of 2 (32 records)
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RUrankivand
22 days ago
Why does 200M Archer counter 300M Blitz?
+0 / -0



GBrank[GBC]1v0ry_k1ng
22 days ago
(edited 22 days ago)

Riot > Raider

Although Archer OP
+0 / -0

PTrankraaar
22 days ago
archer counters everything it outranges because push
+0 / -0




EErankAdminAnarchid
21 days ago
(edited 21 days ago)

Archer is not riot nor raider, it's just janky nonsense entirely outside the rps system
+3 / -0


USrankOflameo
21 days ago
What is the rps system?

Is Archer and Pyro the same class whatever class the Archer is?
+0 / -0


AUrank4hundred
21 days ago
depends how many revolutions per second you're talking about
+0 / -0



PLrankSprung
21 days ago
quote:
What is the rps system?

RPS stands for Rock-Paper-Scissors and is how unit class counters work. In general, each unit class counters some other classes and is in turn countered by others. The most prominent relationship triangle is Raider > Skirm > Riot > Raider.

quote:
Is Archer and Pyro the same class whatever class the Archer is?

It's a bit more nuanced. Not quite but to a fair extent they are.
+0 / -0




EErankAdminAnarchid
21 days ago
(edited 21 days ago)

quote:
What is the rps system?

Rock-Paper-Scissor-Lizard-Spock, or in ZK terms, Raider-RIot-Skirmisher-Artillery-Assault.

quote:
Is Archer and Pyro the same class whatever class the Archer is?
It's a bit more nuanced. Not quite but to a fair extent they are.

They are similar in that they are both things which share raider and riot properties. But newsflash: most ZK raiders have riot sidearms these days.

[Spoiler]

However, like most of these, Pyro still loses to most riots - even if softly.

Meanwhile, Archer brutally counters both raiders and most terrestrial riots (anything with range < 300). And also has a sidearm that arbitrarily immobilises units up to Dante scale.

Pyro is just par for the course in ZK 2018; Archer is horrible even among monsters.
+0 / -0



PLrankSprung
21 days ago
From my (very limited nowadays) experience Archer is meh vs skirms and even mehher vs defenses. Pyro is not great there either but does the job.
+0 / -0

GBrankehtomlol
21 days ago
Yet despite all this amphbot is very infrequently used by top players in 1v1.

Why?

Because even if archer autokilled everything in a small radius its still slow compared to proper raiders like glaive. Amphbot is very limited in terms of raiding options and most of its other units seem to suck quite badly.
+0 / -0




EErankAdminAnarchid
21 days ago
(edited 21 days ago)

quote:
Yet despite all this amphbot is very infrequently used by top players in 1v1.

Why?

Because even if archer autokilled everything in a small radius its still slow compared to proper raiders like glaive. Amphbot is very limited in terms of raiding options and most of its other units seem to suck quite badly.

Which of the top players that you have interviewed have expressed this opinion? Sounds like "scientist rapes reporter" to me.

Personally, i don't use amphs in 1v1 mostly because my vomit reflex overcomes the desire to win for now.
+2 / -0



GBrankPRO_rANDY
21 days ago
I've been using Amphib in 1v1 sometimes the last few weeks with mixed results, some labs they're strong against, others not so much.
+0 / -0


ROrankSigero
21 days ago
(edited 21 days ago)

archer counters everything except skirmisher types,i would say its one of the most OP units in the game atm,simply too cost efficient,also even skirmishers have a difficult time because of theyr speed and numbers.
Its problem is that it has instant stunlcok.
+4 / -0



AUrankAdminAquanim
21 days ago
(edited 21 days ago)

I did see somebody say that Amph is 100% to lose against Jump because Moderator takes an absolute dump on every Amphbot below 2k cost, so that might have something to do with

quote:
amphbot is very infrequently used by top players in 1v1

despite Archer being broken.
+1 / -0

PTrankraaar
20 days ago
archers aren't that fast, they move at 75 e/s. Ogre moves at 69. Pyro moves at 90 and can jump.

+0 / -0


ROrankSigero
20 days ago
(edited 20 days ago)

pyro is the only raider that can actually get away in one piece from archer because of the jump.
Yeah i mean they are THAT fast but they are fast enough to intercept raider radar dots.
+1 / -0


RUrankivand
20 days ago
Ok, so consensus seems to be that Archer is out of place and has broken shooting mechanic.

Will someone with commit rights make a balance patch release, then?
+0 / -0

GBrankehtomlol
20 days ago
yes, lets nerf the only decent riot in the game!
+0 / -2




EErankAdminAnarchid
20 days ago
(edited 20 days ago)

quote:
Will someone with commit rights make a balance patch release, then?

It doesn't need just a balance patch - though i'd nerf its range here, so it would actually lose to Reaver, Ripper and Venom in a fair fight.

What it needs is for its push mechanics to be uplifted to quality requirements of any newly introduced units - such as not causing arbitrary stunlock. And that pretty much requires reimplementing the push mechanic altogether, so it can push without detaching units from the ground.

Or removing the unit.

quote:
yes, lets nerf the only decent riot in the game!

No decent riots would be harmed if Archer got thrown under the bus.
+0 / -0



GBrank[GBC]1v0ry_k1ng
20 days ago
quote:
yes, lets nerf the only decent riot in the game!


This guy spams archer
+0 / -0
Page of 2 (32 records)