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Title: MM 4154: 1v1, Rank Singularity
Host: Nobody
Game version: Zero-K v1.6.9.0
Engine version: 104.0.1-287-gf7b0fcc
Started: 12 months ago
Duration: 4 minutes
Players: 2
Bots: False
Mission: False
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Team 1
Chance of victory: 71.2%

USrankFealthas
Team 2
Chance of victory: 28.8%

USrankSteel_Blue
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Page of 2 (23 records)
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12 months ago
Scythes are faster than puppies AND pyros?
What the!?!?

Its ridiculously op.
+1 / -0
12 months ago
You should be able to chase scythes down with normal units.
+0 / -0
12 months ago
Same crap happened here.

Multiplayer B619031 2 on Obsidian_1.5
+0 / -0
12 months ago
Just have Scythes lose speed when it is revealed. This way they can still reliably raid but when they caught they won't be able to escape from raiders and such.
+3 / -0
12 months ago
micro your puppies to jump, her dur dur.
+0 / -0
12 months ago
Id be most in favor of increasing their energy cost alot, so you can't use them early game when they are the most oppressive.
+1 / -0
My guess has been that scythes, (and cloaky in general - perhaps along with rovers), could probably be the single best unit in the game in most situations when microed perfectly, except maybe vs. fleas.

I really haven't been able to figure out why it hasn't already been the meta.

Cloak makes scouting and radar useless vs. them, they have no range disadvantage unlike every other raider in the game (closest might be halberd, koda, or ravager), they're as fast as a raider, and their DPS*health/cost is practically as good as every other raider. Oh, and every single one comes with a regen that's the equivalent of a dedicated 75-metal worker in repair but doesn't cost repair-energy.

They're pretty sweet. I actually adore the unit and its mechanics though, so it would be sad to recommend a nerf, even if deserved.


However, cloaked units are one of the most obvious fac-RPS offenders in the game, too, and I don't think that's good.

Vs. cloaked units: Spiders>Rovers>Shield>Hover>Tanks>Jumpy??

Edit: idk about the correct fac hierarchy for detection, Godde makes some compelling points about puppies and pyros, if you micro the jumps quick.
+0 / -0
[double post]
+0 / -0
scythes are effective when used properly, but probably not OP.

The unit design is nonsense though, a metal blade that can cut through heavy armor? really?

they should have an energy blade that lights up like a light-saber when they're fighting.



+0 / -0
12 months ago
Can you please explain how to counter them then? Early-game you have no choice but to keep all your units in base to prevent scythe from killing everything.
+0 / -0
12 months ago
not sure, keep a riot unit near base and make stardusts instead of lotuses
+0 / -0


12 months ago
Scythe rush is a thing again?
+0 / -0
12 months ago
Oh wonderful. A riot and stardusts 2 minutes into the game. By building those units so early I might as well just resign.
+0 / -0
if you make two more riots you can probably push with them and the commander and the scyte player can't engage them, i think

EDIT: but yes, that's not a good position to be in. I think ZK needs higher baseline economy. As it is, if you're out expanded early you're kind of screwed.
+0 / -0
If I may: the whole mechanic behind riots is either that they outrange raiders or that they have AOE. Scythe both completely ignores range advantages, and is the same weight as most riots so AOE is (edit) largely irrelevant. Not only that, but since they're *invisible*, they can always pick their battles, and so can always outnumber the straggler riots unless the riots clump into a single ball. Also again, since they're *invisible*, the riots will never be able to position themselves correctly and so will never be able to defend anything more than a tiny range around them.

The more I think about them, the less I can understand why I don't see them almost every game, and especially against jumpbots.


+2 / -0
12 months ago
they can't fight groups of riots and and win without having a large numbers advantage, unless they're fighting redbacks, which are slightly underpowered.

scythes are very susceptible to AOE in groups due to their short range.
+1 / -0


12 months ago
Puppies are a great counter to Scythes. You only need 2 to kill a Scythe.
A Scythe might be able to kill a Puppy before it uncloaks but it is not like you can abuse switch and bait micro against Puppies like you can against other raiders. The only bad thing about Puppies as a Scythe counter is that you can't really raid costeffectively with them like you can with proper raiders so they are mostly stuck to defensive duties, but hey, at least puppies are pretty good against Glaives.
Pyros are pretty easy to kill if the enemy doesn't micro them, but if the enemy reacts quickly, they can jump away and the Scythe is gonna be on fire, giving you time to chase it with other nearby units.
Constables, jumpcons, can jump, are cheap and have a slowing beam. If the jumpbot players micro is on point, he will jump away before losing the con, keep the Scythe slowed and kill it with nearby units. Is there a better con against Scythes? Welders is the only potential candidate and while killing the Welder can be hard, the Scythe can destroy a few mexes and then run away pretty safely.
Jacks? I can't really think of a realistic scenario where Scythes make cost against jacks.
You might be able to kill a Moderator in a 1v1 but if you fail to get it before it fires, your Scythe is on half health and completely slowed and easy to pick off by nearby units.
Firewalker is just a great unit against cloakybots in general, so if you can just limit the angles from which snipers can approach, it is easy to protect. You just need a few Puppies circling around it to make Scythes an uneconomical alternative when the Firewalker is in your army. Flames also has the property of decloaking units like Scythes.
Jugglenaut/Sumo? Scythes got no chance wrestling with it.
Toad? Well it is AA, so yeah. Scythes can beat it, if it doesn't jump away to safety first.
Skuttle? Ok, it is an economical gain to kill a Skuttle with a Scythe but why were the Jumpbot player making Skuttles against Cloakybots in the first place?
Placeholder? Eh, it can potentially trap a group of Scythes or it can trap a bunch of its allied units. It can backfire but if Scythes are trapped by the blackhole they are easy pickings most of the time.

So is there any better factory against Scythes? Fleas probably win as a general counter but a group of Scythes can surprise a spider player and push through a Flea screen while every unit in the Jumpbot factory is almost designed to kill or counter Scythes in an army composition.
+1 / -0
12 months ago
Godde all of your counters rely on keeping all your units near your base.
+0 / -0


12 months ago
If you don't see any raiders nor expanding cons from the cloaky player, just keep a few puppies and the commander in the base.
+0 / -0

12 months ago
Some skyth spam counters i use.

tics work best.

faraday in base on pike.

fleas

general raider spam, they should win out in the end.

main poblem is knowing if there around coming and if they will keep coming.
+1 / -0
Page of 2 (23 records)