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Daggers vs Submarines

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9 years ago
But Daggers do use torpedoes, that's why they can shoot into water!
Except they don't drop them in water because they mistrust the puny propelling system; isntead they shoot the whole thing.
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9 years ago
They use Gauss, guass penetrates through whole buildings and mechs, it can penetrate water too.
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9 years ago
Sak, you must present an IRL video of .50 cal ammo penetrating giant plasma shooting robots in space as evidence or he won't believe you.
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Gauss does not make sense as a water piercing weapon. This is why there was a proposal to refluff it into something less definite, like Sonic, Phase or Pulse.

Ironically, that was dismissed on the grounds of "not physicsey".
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9 years ago
Gib PLOMP plox.
We needs PLOMP units!
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Skasi
9 years ago
Zomg guise! Give torpedoes for UW targets!
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quote:
Ironically, that was dismissed on the grounds of "not physicsey".

I think you misunderstand what "physicsey" means. It's not whether or not it is realistic, but whether it sounds vaguely like real physics. In other words, it needs to be semi-convincing handwavey like-something-real-but-off-on-the-details technobabble to be properly physicsey. Realism and physicseyness are not necessarily related or opposed.

If it doesn't cause Trekkie-style nerd-sniping in its wake, it isn't physicsey.
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9 years ago
quote:
If it doesn't cause Trekkie-style nerd-sniping in its wake, it isn't physicsey.

Dunno, does trek do any nerdsniping with its magical shields and magical info devices?

Surprisingly, Phase is trekky though
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9 years ago
I guess, but having a famous scientist's name on it just adds to the physicseyness.

Yes, I know, it's silly. That's marketing/item naming for you.
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FIrankFFC
9 years ago
or just change all gauss to sonic
+2 / -0

9 years ago
Rename Gauss turret into Bell.
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Well, I'm no physicist but after reading about Gauss Rifles, their representation in ZK really makes no sense at all (not even physicsey sense). A gauss cannon is just accelerating a conventional projectile, so passing through buildings/units/terrain without slowing is not explained to my satisfaction.

The gauss rifles in ZK look (and behave) more like super-heated plasma bolt launchers (as opposed to the plasma cannons common in artillery). I think that's a better (but still imperfect) explanation of their behavior:

1. They're hot as fuck, so they evaporate water easily
2. They cool rapidly after moving through any medium for a short distance, so their range is very limited.
3. They're small in diameter, so the actual damage from an individual bolt is not that great, but its ability to penetrate things is vastly superior to artillery-grade plasma ordnance, which have larger contact areas and so can not withstand impact without detonating.
4. Charging a plasma bolt in a containment field takes a while, so they have low rate of fire.

Alternatively, I think "phase" weapons are hand-wavey enough to fit here.

On the issue of carrying sufficient power to generate such a projectile on a light hovercraft chassis: this is not the most glaring impossibility in ZK. Have you ever wondered how metal can be instantly transmitted between builders regardless of distance and lack of physical connections between them? Ultimately ZK is a game, the whole point of which is to not be like real life.

Finally, I leave you with a US Navy test of a huge ass railgun
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9 years ago
quote:
so passing through buildings/units/terrain is not explained to my satisfaction.

Gauss doesn't pierce terrain, though. Fire does.

I think i'd call it some radiation gun based on how it behaves. Neutron, for example; so ground would be good at absorbing that while water maybe not so.

I'm getting dangerously close to thinking that since we're on proper spring engine we can now fix the fire penetrates ground problem. My todo list is way too oversized for my current energy levels so thinking such stuff is unallowable, so i won't do that.
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9 years ago
Is the fire penetrates ground problem a particularly involved fix?

USrankkaen: That sounds really on point. Only remaining issue would be re-lore-ing the current plasma weapons (ex. glaive & warrior).
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quote:
Is the fire penetrates ground problem a particularly involved fix?

It should be a pretty easy engine-side fix.

The reason it necessitates engine fix is as follows:

1) Currently, the following things exist: noexplode, bounce.

2) Noexplode treats units and ground the same way. If it pierces units, it pierces ground.

3) Bounce ignores units and only reacts to ground, but if fire is bouncy (like gauss), then bouncing against ground when being shot from upside down will give it double (or more) damage due to increased travel time through the target colvol.

So splitting noexplode into noExplodeUnit and noExplodeGround should fix it.
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quote:

Only remaining issue would be re-lore-ing the current plasma weapons (ex. glaive & warrior).


Thanks :)
The unit manual currently lists those both as "Pulse MG" presumably meaning machine guns. I've also heard them referred to as "ballistic" weapons which fits with that description. Bandits apparently have "laser blasters", like a commander's pea shooter weapon.

The "plasma cannons" on assault/arty units (Thug etc.) are characteristically different than my "plasma bolt", and would be no more of a discrepancy than the one between a bandit's "laser blaster" and the mace's "laserbeam".

I don't mind ZK being inconsistent with reality though, as long as it's consistent with itself, so I don't think any change is truly necessary.
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I understand 'Physicsy' to mean "Using the games physics engine".

IE, if it bounces off ground and penetrates units, it has emergent properties that come out as a result of the interactions of the physics engine.

Given that it's special physical property is penetrating things, it makes sense to penetrate water.

Since fire penetrates ground the only reason that doesn't penetrate water too is probably fluff (Which is the universal term to apply to appeals to any real or imagined world beyond the games physics: it's always just fluff). So it's dumb from a fluff perspective but I think water and fire, that's reasonable: We do want some sort of intuitive sense of how this world works.
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