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Balance Feedback

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I've been playing constantly for the last two weeks and thought I'd give my balance impressions. Overall balance seems pretty awesome atm, or at least the trolls havn't figured out what to abuse yet.

Firewalker
I thought it would be OP, but actually not sure it is. The only problem I have with it at present is that it brutally counters the whole shieldfac unless the shields huddle under an apsis.

Pyro
still needs standardised projectile that only damages each target once per projectile

Scorcher & Ravager
Scorch & Ravager feel pretty weak nowadays. I think this a product of not just the scorcher HP nerf (which made them much worse vs light defences), but the buffs to missile targeting and numerous skirmisher type units in general - scalpels, ducks, slashers, wolverines, moderators, firewalkers, banishers - these kind of units punish vehicles with their slow turn circles. LV meta now seems entirely focused on creeping with wolverine and slasher, which I find a bit sad given this factory used to be about balls-out Ravager led aggression.

Recluse
Having used spiders a lot recently, I don't think the Recluse cost 300 -> 280 has improved them enough. I'd still rather build rocko, rogue, scalpel, slasher, wolverine or moderator than Recluse.

Panther
These seem pretty bad.

Tremor
These also still seem basically useless. The firewalker does the same job (area bombardment/denial, making shieldballs and light defences cry) but more reliably, with more mobility, and for half the price.

Peace.
+1 / -0
Your Scorcher and Ravager issues seem more related to oversized lolgames. 1v1 flat map meta is quite heavy on Ravager (and Scorcher as well as Slasher) spam and it seems to work fine. Wolverine has gone to be a bit more niche role in duels since the nerf, but it's definitely still very useful in certain scenarios.

Agree about the Panther, it does feel weak. It was very strong before the slight damage nerf (220 -> 190). The point of the nerf was to make it stop hardcountering Scorchers, which was ruining tank vs vehicle early game. Banisher was reroled to be a riot to help with the reduced riot capabilities of the Panther. The most important effects of the nerf:

2->3 hits to kill Scorcher
1->2 hits to kill Glaive
2->3 hits to kill Mex
4->5 hits to kill LLT

A damage buff of 190 -> 205 would get rid of the last three nerfs while keeping the three hit to kill requirement on the Scorcher (which is the part of the nerf that seems to be working well).

Also agree about Tremor being weak.
+4 / -0

8 years ago
imagine a tremor with pillager shots. such wow.
+2 / -0
Jumps become a pretty good factory now, yet it still have some issues.
Pyro cannot be used in large groups, so I think it isn't useful in mid and late game.
Mody is really the main units in jumps. Than more of them u have, than more units u can kill. Tons of mody w/ good micro just kill everything in their range, even Licho cannot fly safe.
Firewalker just kills stuff which is too far from your modys. I think it is a pretty good artillery.
Jack? Eh, what is Jack? Why do u need it, when u can just burn all the shit and then Pew Pew the rest w/ modys? I think it should have lower weight, so it can be used vs light defense. Coz now it have almost the same price as Firewalker which is way more useful.
Sumo is kinda WTF unit. It's mainly good for trolling and countering annoying Crabes. The worst part about it is that it is good against middle-cost units which are already counted by mody, but it is totaly useless against any heavy unit but Crabe. I think it might become a powerful assault when Jack become a 200-300m unit.

P.S.
Also, Jumps aren't really good vs spiders, coz stupid pyro prefer to burn down fleas w/ all your moderators.
+1 / -0
quote:
I think it might become a powerful assault when Jack become a 200-300m unit.


Lol now you can rush 2 jacks on green haven!

Sumo will be a good assault again after you get struck by lightning, hit by a meteor, and win the lottery at the same time.
+0 / -0
8 years ago
quote:

Lol now you can rush 2 jacks on green haven!
Sumo will be a good assault again after you get struck by lightning, hit by a meteor, and win the lottery at the same time.

I mean Jack would be lighter and Sumo would have some normal guns. Now it is useful for throwing lvehs and for launching bombs.
+0 / -0
Must resist reciting the plan where sumo is the assault and jack is replaced with a riot

Crap, i failed
+1 / -0
I think I can claim to love Jacks more than anyone, but they aren't very good.
+0 / -0

8 years ago
I've only played a handful of games since new-firewalker, but can't the shieldbots just disarm it?

EErankAdminAnarchid:

Not Placeholder replaced by riot? Add some damage to the black holes and nerf it in other ways.

Again, my dream Sumo: 800 jump range, long hang-time so it can't hit mobiles, thousands of disarm-damage from stomp, and high-trajectory cannons. The ultimate weapon against shielded porc.

And as for Tremor, I've always thought such a utility unit should be lower-weight. Focus on its ability to smooth terrain, decloak targets, and crack shields not destroy targets and make it cheap-enough to be worth building for this secondary-support stuff.
+0 / -0


8 years ago
quote:
Not Placeholder replaced by riot? Add some damage to the black holes and nerf it in other ways.

I dislike things with side effects. Put it on having done too much programming. I despise current Venom for its damaging side effect and violating lightning/disarm/emp rules.

A riot would synergize with Placeholder. I love the Placeholder as an utility unit.
+0 / -0
8 years ago
quote:
the scorcher HP nerf
420 for life blaze it
+0 / -0
CArankPxtl
Cost reduction has lately been used quite a lot and while it can be a simple way to increase the usefulness of a unit, I don't think it should be overused. Especially when talking about tanks which have high cost as a trait. There are plenty of ways of making Tremor more useful without making it cheaper.
+1 / -0


8 years ago
Pyro cannot be used in large groups, I think that this is great.

Scorcher HP has been 420 since October 2010.

Tremor could probably be improved. It has barely been touched and looks too expensive for what it does.
+2 / -0

8 years ago
EErankAdminAnarchid

I agree about the Venom, but it makes intuitive sense that the black hole would do at least a little damage and there are no other black-hole units that this would break convention with.

EErank[ISP]Lauri

The thing is that the Tremor is a utility unit. Paying that much for a utility is painful, and for straight-up fire-support artillery tanks have the Pillager. Any attempt to make the Tremor more useful as an artillery unit would step on the Pillager's toes, so the better approach for the Tremor is to celebrate its nature as a utility unit... and a utility unit can't be that expensive unless it does something really awesome, not just popping shields and smoothing terrain.
+0 / -0

8 years ago
quote:
violating lightning/disarm/emp rules

These being?...
+0 / -0


8 years ago
quote:
These being?...

- the ratio of real and emp damage done
- the visual style
+0 / -0
Visual style? They all look like lightning which Venom also does. Venom is fatter but that is to convey AoE and not damage type. Colour is not fully consistent already (both Tick with its pure EMP and Zeus with its mixed damage are blue, for instance).

Ratio of EMP to real damage isn't constant either but I agree that Venom is outside the typical range.[Spoiler]

That said, Venom real damage is a pre-Redback solution so perhaps being pure EMP again could be given a try.
+0 / -0

8 years ago
PLrankAdminSprung

Blue lightning

damage-lightning. Yellow lightning

painless lightning. White sparkly lightning = painless disarm.

I tend to think the colors are too subtle in some cases to make this distinction obvious, but still, the convention is there.
+0 / -0

8 years ago
quote:
Blue lightning

damage-lightning. Yellow lightning

painless lightning

Und dann: Tick.
+1 / -0
tremor is quite good for harassment tho, probably not as good as wolverines but longer range. at least in team games, 1v1 games rarely get so porcy for it to have any use. just 1 tremor is a pain in the ass because it will eventually kill all nanoturrets, cons etc.

also its great for draining shields, which i guess is somewhat relevant for tank fac, because larger shieldballs are very hard to break.

problem i see with any buffs to it that it will easily get into op territory. people very rarely make more than 1 or 2 of them but if you have a bunch of them, they deal quite a lot of damage.
+0 / -0
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