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ZK Spring

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Skasi
7 years ago
https://www.zkoss.org/product/zkspring
+4 / -0
7 years ago
Do we have ZK copyrighted? If so we could probably sue them for enough money to pay the server bills for the next few years lol
+0 / -2
7 years ago
Or more probably they can sue us :D
+0 / -0
7 years ago
But ZK has been around since 2010, That company looks much newer
+0 / -1


7 years ago
IANAL, but the question is whether we have ZK trademarked, not copyrighted. They aren't infringing on any copyrights (not that the project has any AFAIK, since it's mostly GPL code with CC-BY assets) since they aren't repackaging this game as their own. However, names can be trademarked, so that's the real question. Since they aren't using Zero-K, and instead just ZK, that would probably be a hard argument to win.
+0 / -0
7 years ago
+9 / -0
Skasi
Frequent ragers need those! :)

RUrankParzival the oldest wikipedia entry for the framework is from 2005. Iirc that's older than CA (probably started somewhere around 2006-2007 or so) and much older than the ZK rename (which according to archives seems to have been between 17. Nov and 2. Dec 2010).

Anyway, I didn't want this topic to turn into any sort of war. People should be free to pick whatever name they want. That's why people support open projects in the first place, right?
+0 / -0


7 years ago
I am sad now because we never decided who would get the pack of wipes the company offered to send us after exchanging jokes on twitter.
+4 / -0
Skasi
7 years ago
Sell them for kudos? :P
Oh by the way, I still can't see my kudos anymore after some clowndev removed them from the bar below navigation.

Also, I couldn't resist..
+1 / -0
7 years ago
Zero-kids?
+10 / -0


7 years ago
This is a joke thread, but I'll address the serious questions it raised.

ZK the game and ZK the Java framework are not infringing on each other's trademarks because they are in separate product spaces and have no risk of being confused for each other. The same is true for Zero-K the game and Zero-K the cooling wipes. If I wanted to, I could register "StarCraft" as a trademark for a line of chainsaws, a sports drink, an automobile, or a tax preparation service without infringing on Blizzard's trademark for their line of video games. Trademark protection is product-sector-specific.

[Note: It's not quite as simple as that. There are subtleties and complications which I am deliberately skipping over. However, the basic point is essentially correct for the discussion at hand.]

Trademark protection is an important concept for an open-source project such as ours, simply because the Zero-K brand and all associated trademarks are the only things which are definitively ours. That's because we've deliberately decided to give everything else away (subject to the standard open-source constraints such as share-and-share-alike). Someone else could duplicate everything there is about Zero-K and we could do nothing about it. That's a deliberate choice on our part. The one thing we could do is require them to call themselves something other than Zero-K, because we have not given away the rights to use our trademark the way we've given away the rights to use our code and artwork.

The same thing is true for pretty much all other open-source projects. The big ones have set up foundations to act as legal owners of the project's assets. They also usually serve as steering committees and policy makers; in some cases they also raise and collect funds and pay staff to advance the project's goals. But in most cases the only assets they have are the trademarks of the project's brands. And, in fact, that's the only legal lever they have to enforce whatever policies they decide to make. They also have a social lever, and that lever is much, much more powerful and important than the legal lever. But when the social control breaks down and people threaten to leave or fork the project over differences in policy, the foundation is the entity that determines which branch of the fork gets to keep using the old name and which branch has to switch names.

Trademark protection is not simple. Unlike copyright, you don't get it "for free" just by existing. To get any significant legal protection (i.e. the ability to force a competitor to stop using your trademark) you have to register the mark, and usually you have to register it in multiple jurisdictions separately using separate processes. Unregistered trademarks ("common-law trademarks") can also be legally protected, depending on the jurisdiction, but are usually harder to enforce, as the burden to show rightful use and ownership is higher.

Organizations such as The Mozilla Foundation, The Wikimedia Foundation, and the World Science Fiction Society have standing committees which deal with registering and maintaining their rights over their trademarks (such as the words "Firefox", "Wikipedia", and "Worldcon" and "The Hugo Awards"). [Note that the WSFS is about putting on conventions and giving out awards, not writing software, but they've been dealing with these sorts of trademark issues for much longer than the open-source movement has been in existence.] These efforts take up a modest amount of time, effort, money, and organizational resources. It's not a huge effort, but it's not nothing, and at this time it's certainly well beyond the capabilities of Zero-K.

At this time, there is no question that we are best off simply using Zero-K as an unregistered, common-law trademark and hoping that we never need to initiate a legal enforcement action to stop someone from making another game - or even the exact same game - and calling it Zero-K. I think we are pretty safe in that regard. The existing social structures should be more than sufficient to prevent that from happening. Nobody making a different game would want to use this name (because they wouldn't want the confusion it would cause any more than we would), and nobody is going to want to fork this game because it's not like we have more than a few people working on it in the first place. And anything calling itself "ZK" or "Zero-K" that isn't a game is irrelevant.
+9 / -0
7 years ago
+1 those who didn't read post above.
+1 / -6

7 years ago
See also:
+4 / -0




Just google Image "Zero-K" and you find similar in middle of it, little but there is some.
+0 / -0
Skasi
Yeah but mine said "ZK" AND "Spring" AND "open source software"! :P
+5 / -0
7 years ago
Yep, but i was talking more about PLrankOrfelius image, guess i should have been more specific.
+0 / -0


7 years ago
Actually, my biggest issue has been that Zerok is apparently something totally different, and it messes up related videos for people watching my casts, and possibly also when searching for them on YouTube.
+3 / -0
+1 / -0


7 years ago
"The economy of Zerok is mainly based on mountains and cultivation."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziruk_District

Someone needs to make a map based on this:
+1 / -0
I've seen this article on AgoraVox.fr just 4 days ago (and before seeing this thread!) :

http://www.agoravox.fr/culture-loisirs/culture/article/zero-k-ou-la-lutte-sterile-de-l-179766

quote:

"Zero K, ou la lutte stérile de l’homme face à la mort"

Zero K est le titre du prochain roman de Don DeLillo qui sortira en version originale le 3 mai, et dans lequel le père du héros, un milliardaire d’une soixantaine d’années, investit sa fortune dans un projet de cryogénisation d’êtres humains dans le seul but de sauver sa nouvelle compagne, atteinte d’une grave maladie. Zero K est également le nom d’un jeu vidéo de stratégie en temps réel, dans lequel d’immenses armées de robots s’affrontent dans un combat sans fin.

[...]


Translation :

quote:

" Zero K, or sterile struggle of man in the face of death "

Zero K is the title of the next novel by Don DeLillo [picture of the cover of the book up in this very thread!], the original version of which is going to be released May 3rd , in which the hero's father , a billionaire sixty years old, invests his fortune in a cryonics project with the sole purpose of saving his new girlfriend, which is afflicted with a severe illness. *Zero K is also the name of a strategy video game in real time, in which huge robot armies clash in an endless battle.*

[...]


...which made me do a double-take, as it's already extremely rare to see Zero-K mentioned in the gaming press - and I don't think I *ever* saw it mentioned by non-gaming-related blogs before!
+3 / -0
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