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Title: 1v1: All welcome!
Host: CZrankElerium
Game version: Zero-K v1.4.5.0
Engine version: 100.0
Battle ID: 415953
Started: 7 years ago
Duration: 6 minutes
Players: 2
Bots: False
Mission: False
Rating: Competitive
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Team 1
Chance of victory: 14.9%

USrankCapricis
Team 2
Chance of victory: 85.1%

USrankFealthas
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CZrankElerium

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If your opponent has slow/weak aa it is almost hilariously imbalanced because they cant deal with it.

Gremlins have no alpha and this means your banshees can stick around a bit longer to kill stuff. They are also too slow to get somewhere before the banshees have finished killing something.
+0 / -0
7 years ago
I guess the solution is to use them differently than other AA: use radar to be able to ambush.
Or combine them with some scythes to provoke:"omgz, scythes, so easy to deal with with gunships, hahah...OMGZ WHERE DID THOSE GREMLINS COME FROM ALL MY GUNSHIPS ARE DEAD!!!!"
I don't know if that would work cost effectively.
+0 / -0

7 years ago
Gremlins are pretty weak as aa.
Pros.
-Invisible,
-Hitscan weapon,
-Very manoeuvrable (gs like brawlers have problem to kill gremlin, they sometimes evades also ravens).

Cons.
-Costly (two vandals with greter range costs almost on gremlin + you need pay energy for cloak),
-very close range (its IMO is largest problem with gremlins),
-No alpha damage.

I tried many times use them in teams but they mostly failed do they job because of small range. For surprise attacks killing large target need mass of them. In primary they aren't base aa but more like support aa for main defence aa or other types mobile aa.
+2 / -0
7 years ago
This seems really inefficient, but build a Newton on attract more.
+0 / -0


7 years ago
Warriors are very good AA within their short range so can deal with Banshee. They can also kill light defenses and protect against the ground switch. I have not tried them against gunships but a mix of Warrior and Gremlin might work.
+0 / -0
Later on in the game I find that Gremlin becomes more powerful, since ambushing enemy air (the heavier gunships in particular) gets you kills, whereas the gunships would simply avoid large concentrations of visible AA, or retreat when necessary.

They can also cause a Gunship player to be scared of committing.

Their early-game punch isn't great, though they are effective scouts even then.
+1 / -0

7 years ago
Yeah gremlins are weak early but terrors later on. Unlike other AA where your opponent has to make a big mistake to lose a trade, gremlins are invisible and thus not running into them takes a lot more caution. Air's caution is air's failure to capitalise on their air control, so this is a very good thing even if they do trade less efficiently than other comparable AA. Funnily enough, it's their lack of visible presence that gives them such a large presence.
+0 / -0

7 years ago
Y'all are completely missing the point. Nobody cares how good warriors or gremlins are 10 min into the game, because you have lost by then. Warriors for early defense is even worse than going gremlins because they are even slower and have less range.

Why would I ever fly into warrior range with banshees? Especially early game? lol
If you attack me with warriors I dont mind morphing mgun and building an llt or two while I eat your base because of lack of aa.
+2 / -0

7 years ago
Warriors are unbansheeable. Combined with gremlins they can't be kited by rapiers or brawlers. They also protect against the switch. It means that you're capable of exerting some pressure, which is a thing that most factories struggle with against GS.

It's not about whether or not you fly into the warriors, it's about the fact that you can't.
+0 / -0


7 years ago
I think Fealthas' point is that if the only thing on the board that Warriors can attack are statics and you know exactly where they can attack because they are slow, then it's extremely easy and cheap to defeat them with porc built in that exact place. Especially when compared to how much it costs to get them to that place.

We should finish the Fire Support draft.
+1 / -0


7 years ago
Why are you trying to defend with mobile AA? Get a Razor. I thought the question was on how to move out and expand.
+1 / -0
Casted on YouTube

I worked it out briefly in the cast, but basically in the 3 seconds it takes for the 200 elmo/s Banshees to leave the 700 elmo range of the Gremlin, assuming the Gremlins ambush properly rather than attack from max range, it would take 2-4 Gremlins to down a single Banshee. Afterwards your opponent knows where the Gremlins are, and that you've invested 600+ metal into them, and is only down one Banshee. Gremlins don't stand a chance.
+1 / -0

7 years ago
Btw I started on the lower area because the metal extractors are closer together so you get eco up quicker. Then you can take comm down to the even lower area and take those 3 mexes, while cranes take the super-safe upper area.
+0 / -0