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Phoenix why no use?

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7 years ago
I'm curious as to why no one uses the Pheonix, and I can't really see why other than expensive and less damags
Apparently fire gets a damage boost against large targets, and makes it lethal, so I'm wondering why the plane isn't used, I've seen other flames destroy very quickly and I think the Phoenix can do better..
What is the damage boost for flame when hitting large targets, and why does no one use Phoenix.. It looks good.
+0 / -0
payback rate is below 1 in most cases.

i think damage does not stack(correct me if im wrong). so you can burn fat things, but, as they are fat, they will just laugh off some hp and dont die.

light targets die but are not that easy to target. the bomb drop is banana style, you can influence the drop curve with an additional waypoind behind the attack command. whatever, not many players use this.

as it is by definition made of paper, it will die soon because most of the time it is, as a plane, not attacking but rearming.
+1 / -0
Phoenix is only useful if two requirements are mat:
1. You have complete air dominance and there is not enough AA from the enemy to hurt it.
2. There are a lot of light units that can be easily killed by it.

Otherwise other units do much better job than phoenix does and even then Blastwings seem to be more effective.
Its not a unit you spam but you throw in the mix just for good measure. Also what DErankAdminmojjj said.

Fire damage does not stack but Phoenix also has quite a lot of initial damage.
+1 / -0

7 years ago
I think honestly that it can be buffed so it's good for early economy stabbing. Make it's napalm long-lasting so it kills buildings better like mexes, windmills, llts.
+0 / -0
7 years ago
As I'm under the impression the Phoenix is supposed to be a riot plane, its weapon area of effect could possibly be slightly enlargened, for instance.
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7 years ago
I did an incidental experiment where I threw like 50 phoenixes at a mob of jacks. Not a single jack died! The phoenixes stacked their hits pretty closely, but still, not a single jack died. They also sucked at killing off base structures.
+0 / -0

7 years ago
theres a lot of units in this game i think people just forget some of them exist sometimes

i dont think pheonix is bad but microing air fac takes lot of skill and people usually have their hands full with raven, utilizing thunderbird or pheonix properly is though
+0 / -0
7 years ago
It should have longer burn time, so more units can die and buildings get smashed more easily
Also, longer flames on the ground so it can effectively stop ruahes for a few seconds
+2 / -0

7 years ago
Its mostly phoneix targeting that sucks, not the actual unit. Although its cost could be reduced a little.

Blue is bombs path/final location. Red is the target.
Currently, targeting works like the top image.
If the phoneix dropped its bombs in a square or circle pattern(like bottom illustration) all at once while attacking, it would actually gain something from having more than 1 bomb, instead of hitting like 3 and missing the rest. It would be more sensible to use, because you can predict how bombs will land.
+0 / -0
7 years ago
Have used against AI. It is unholy when it 3, as it destroys whatever it drops bombs on. Yes the targeting does need changing, but I also think it should be better immolating an area, as it is a napalm bomber, and it is saturation.
+0 / -0

7 years ago
I believe that queueing a movement order after the firing order allows you to override the turning back to base behaviour, which gives you a bit more control over where the bombs go.
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7 years ago
So many reasons.

If the following conditions are met:
- opponent has units that are low to medium weight
- those units are outside of range of statics that could intercept phoenix
- opponents don't have air superiority
- those units are clumped

It's really good.

As are thunderbird, wyvern, rapier, banshee, blastwing, blackdawn, valk-roaches, and even raven, all of which are more resilient to surpises.

You're taking a greater risk (low HP/cost ratio) to deliver marginally better results within very specific contexts. Yes there are the dream shots where an opponent is all clustered, but that's a mistake you can't rely on an opponent making. Also, spreading damage is not as good as it might seem - doing a bunch of damage that doesn't secure kills costs your opponent energy and BP to repair, as well as tempo, but not metal. Other units are better at actually securing kills, which is very important.

Also, when you go for a bombing run and are shot down, you're typically moving in a direction from your factory towards their units, which often means that if you die, the wreckage is pre-secured by them.

I think there's a place for phoenix at a particular stage of the game where you've rushed planes as a second factory in a 1v1 - but that window is narrow when compared to the long utility life of other air units, and while it might be competitive, most people aren't at a skill level where they can accommodate such technicalities for marginal gains. It's not useless, it's just not good IMO.

Compare two phoenix (720m) to three banshees (660m). The banshees repair themselves, are more durable, more granular, have amazing up-time, are very maneuverable, and wipe out all raider, skirm, and assaults outside your opponents air control, while pressuring to severely infringe on your opponents territory if they miss a beat. The phoenix can sometimes land big hits - but if opponents are playing competently they won't, they are fast but not maneuverable, have terrible up-time, have poor health, are less granular, require a skill shot, and have next to zero potential to threaten your opponents territory. It's not even close.
+1 / -0
Fealthas bombers always used to fly directly overhead on units then some guy named Dizekat (who went on to make game called Polynomial) gave us the bomber control widget and everyone thought it was best thing ever and whined because it wasnt public.

Trust me the behavior of flying overhead is NOT better, because you get destroyed by AA. Turning while dropping bombs doesnt necessarily hit less targets either because if the enemy army are in line formation (which they usually are) then you get much better coverage dropping sideways.

If you meant the bomber should be like raven and just fart out a big wide area fire attack then I think that would look weird and not necessarily better than the turn-bombing fire attack which works so well against troops.
+1 / -0