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Unit Renames

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AUrankAdminGoogleFrog
4 months ago
(edited 4 months ago)

Unfortunately, we need another round of unit renames. Ideally this would be the last time so there may be a lot of them. In short, it looks bad that we have not put in the basic level of creative effort required to change the names since OTA. People may think that a game that doesn't put in this effort is a copy in many other, more important, ways. Quantum convinced me that this effect should be taken seriously. The cost is 'only' confusion, required wiki updates and some vocal annoyed players. In my experience, renames take, on average, a few months to take hold. A sufficiently good name is taken up near instantly (eg. Dagger) and poor names can take years to fully apply. Ideally we'll be able to make good renames with feedback. However, the only two options are good renames and bad renames.

These are the OTA names:
  • Roach
  • Rocko, Warrior, Zeus, Hammer, Eraser
  • Slasher, Leveler
  • Hawk, Phoenix, Vulture
  • Brawler, Rapier, Valkyrie
  • Penetrator
  • Flea, Infiltrator
  • Pyro, Sumo
  • Panther, Reaper, Goliath, Copperhead
  • Defender, Annihilator, Doomsday Machine
  • Cobra
  • Protector, Big Bertha, Silencer
Zeus, Pheonix, Flea, Pyro, Sumo and Big Bertha are deemed to be generic/appropriate enough to not require changing.

These are third party units, just for completeness, they don't need changing:
  • Tick
  • Wolverine
  • Banshee, Blackdawn, Krow, Vindicator
  • Venom, Recluse, Crabe
  • Archangel
  • Banisher, Tremor
  • Catapult, Bantha
  • Chainsaw, Screamer

Here are the proposed changes:
  • Roach -> Rat
  • Rocko -> Imp (Hoko (or Moko) if we need to bribe ILrankAdminhokomoko for something)
  • Warrior -> Ares
  • Hammer -> Apollo
  • Eraser -> Witch (or Dolos?)
  • Slasher -> ???
  • Leveler -> ???
  • Hawk -> Falcon
  • Vulture -> ??? (maybe keep)
  • Brawler -> ???
  • Rapier -> Revenant
  • Valkyrie -> Swallow
  • Penetrator -> Lance
  • Infiltrator -> Widow
  • Panther -> Basilisk
  • Reaper -> Rhino
  • Golliath -> Komodo
  • Copperhead -> Taipan
  • Defender -> Hammer
  • Annihilator -> ???
  • Doomsday Machine -> ???
  • Cobra -> Python
  • Protector -> ???
  • Silencer -> ???

Most of the ??? are easy to fill in with something generic so I've left them blank for now. I'm fairly happy with some of the renames. Others need a bit of work, for example we're leaning a bit heavily on the Greek gods. Alongside the required changes we can also make some changes to enhance their suitability.

Animal themed Tanks:
  • Kodachi -> Salamander
  • Banisher -> Leopard
  • Pillager -> Tiger
  • Tremor -> Elefant

Here are some opportunistic renames that I'm in favour of:
  • Dominatrix -> Dominator (-o(e)r theme)
  • Blastwing -> Moth (fits with Gnat, Moths and flames etc...)
  • Vindicator -> Albatross (fits with Swallow)


============ Current suggestion list ============
Suggestions are somewhat sorted with more popular suggestions towards the front of the list. Suggestions in bold seem to be either generally agreed upon or I think they are really good.
Core:
  • Roach -> Snitch, Rat, Beetle, Termite, Bugmine, Pest, Banger
  • Rocko -> Ronin, Slinger, Pilum, Duelist, Winger, Column, Pillar, Grenadier, Imp, Arrowhead, Hoko
  • Warrior -> Gladiator, Champion, Centurion, Odin, Ghoul, Ares, Bane, Brute, Beast, Hulk, Bully, Gunner, Maniac, Frenzy, Ogre, Svarog
  • Hammer -> Pelter, Pummel, Chisel, Slinger, Stoneman, Cudgel, Sabot, Slingshot, Pebble, Rockwell, Apollo, Dropshot, Brick
  • Eraser -> Iris, Mesmerist, Witch, Blindspot, Dolos, Shadowcaster, Blank, Secret, Absence, Concealer, Sneak, Deceiver, Deluder,
  • Slasher -> Lasher, Anchor, Whip
  • Leveler -> Equalizer, Cracker, Blaster, Lasher, Rumbler
  • Hawk -> Falcon, Raptor, Harrier, Peregrine
  • Vulture -> Owl, Blackbird, Vigilant, Gull, Seagull
  • Brawler -> Gargoyle, Gnawer
  • Rapier -> Harpy, Gargoyle, Revenant, Butterfly, Viper, Ladybug
  • Valkyrie -> Bee, Ladybug, Aircab, Swallow, Skybus
  • Penetrator -> Lance, Lightbringer, Auger, Iluminator, Trephine, Flashray
  • Infiltrator -> Widow, Widowmaker, Karakurt
  • Panther -> Blitz, Bolt, Basilisk, Sauvage, Stormseeker, Raptor, Cheetah, Thunderbolt, Komodo
  • Reaper -> Rhino, Tiger, Bison, Linebreaker, Stegosaurus
  • Goliath -> Komodo, Despot, Basilisk, Gorgon, Colossus, Warhorse, Hardhead, Jotun, Juggernaught, Rex, Magog
  • Copperhead -> Viper, Taipan, Cottonmouth
  • Defender -> Picket, Cerberus, Chisel, Sentry, Spike, Watchdog, Tripod, Hedgehog, Mistletoe, Hammer, Loyalist, Caltrop
  • Annihilator -> Paladin, Illuminator, Citadel, Cosmos, Longinus, Ballista, Trephine
  • Doomsday Machine -> Thresher, Decreator, Fortress, Citadel, Nemesis, Hellbringer,
  • Cobra -> Python
  • Protector -> Saviour, Safeguard, Ward, Sunscreen, Shelter
  • Silencer -> Purifier, Scourge, Lucifer, Trinity, Minuteman, Disinfectant, Cleanser, Brimstone, Pacifier, Peacemaker, Finalizer, Lightbearer
  • Flea -> Flea, Mite

Extras:
  • Kodachi -> Blaze, Kodachi, Brand, Salamander, Fireball, Charmant, Skink
  • Banisher -> Cougar, Banisher, Leopard, Monitor
  • Pillager -> Emissary, Tiger, Paladin, Brontosaurus
  • Tremor -> Rainmaker, Tremor, Hailstorm, Stampede, Cloudseeder, Grindstone, Flurry, Oasis, Flatner, Earthshaker, Elefant, Diplodocus
  • Blastwing -> Moth, Firefly, Dragonfly
  • Vindicator -> Albatross, Hornet
  • Black Dawn -> Scarab, Blackwidow, Hellion

Consider whether renaming is a requirement: Chainsaw, Screamer, Banshee, Black Dawn, Tremor, Banisher, Crabe, Krow.

+5 / -6


USrank[Evo]ForbodingAngel
4 months ago
Fwiw, you guys should really rename the internal names too:

Armxxx
Corxxx

Not so great. I understand just how giant of a pain in the ass that is though :'(
+2 / -0



AUrankAdminGoogleFrog
4 months ago
That is worth doing but it is a giant pain, especially with external things such as wiki and missions.
+0 / -0

PTrankraaar
4 months ago
I don't get it. What happens if you don't do the renames? Shouldn't you also replace the models for something somewhat different (that fits each role)?

many of the OTA names are generic. How many rts games have units named "warrior", "zeus", or "pyro"?

I'd do it only for the more "unique" names, like "rocko", annihilator, bertha, copperhead and such...maybe.

Kodachi wasn't an OTA unit...was it? I don't remember vindicator either.


+1 / -0



AUrankAdminGoogleFrog
4 months ago
(edited 4 months ago)

quote:
Shouldn't you also replace the models for something somewhat different (that fits each role)?
All of the models (as far as I'm aware, and I've done some checking) are original content produced for ZK, Spring or at least by a TA modder. Almost all of the models have an original design or are generic enough that I don't worry. The old Battle and Strike commander models were removed for being too iconic and close to an old design. Off the top of my head the only highly derivative models are the vehicles and tanks and those models are fairly generic vehicles and tanks. The vehicle, tank and plane factories are also questionable but they are probably going to be remodeled anyway for usability reasons.

All your other questions are answered by reading the OP.
+0 / -0

DErankXivender
4 months ago
please no renames... please dont do this...
+5 / -0



EErankAdminAnarchid
4 months ago
(edited 4 months ago)

quote:
Rapier -> Revenant

Undead/evil/magic is the cloaky theme. Rapier is not cloaky. Neither is it particularly survivable, capable of regeneration, of resurrection. Revenant would be a better name for Warrior.

For Rapier and Brawler, i would propose Locust, Hornet. I'd have preferred a non-agressive insect for the gunship constructor (such as Weevil, Aphid) so that Wasp could be reused for the angry and fast things. But it's too late.
+3 / -0


AUrankAquanim
4 months ago
(edited 4 months ago)

I have mixed feelings about the new names (i.e. some are good, some are bad).

I think the Greek mythological names theme for Cloaky is fine, though they could be reviewed; I greatly dislike the proposed 'evil/magic creatures' theme. I think that Banshee and Revenant (or similar) are far more appropriate names for gunships than Imp is for Rocko.

'Salamander' is a huge mouthful. The other tank names seem kind of ok (although 'Elephant' is misspelled).

Personally I like Dominatrix the way it is. For what it's worth, the 'trix' suffix has the same etymological source as the 'tor' suffix.

"Defender > Hammer" is a disaster waiting to happen.

"Firefly" seems like a better name than Moth for Blastwing.

In general I would prioritise picking names which have nice-sounding and meaningful abbreviations.

edit: 'Basilisk' clashes with a chicken unit.
+7 / -0

AUrankhedgehogs
4 months ago
(edited 4 months ago)

Give all the factories there own theme:
[Spoiler]

My suggestions to stop renames.
[Spoiler]

I propose this so each factory has their own theme which doesn't truly need to be relevant to what they can do,this gives people a link to what the factory is, and it's theme.
quote:
Dominatrix -> Dominator

Name feels a bit overused.
I go "Superintendent", then again, I think these need to be creative, and I don't think it is.

quote:
Roach -> Rat

Good :)
Zeus:
Clairvoyant.
Oh hi knorke, want conversation today?
I'll be in the free Wiktionary to look at names.


+0 / -0

PLrankOrfelius
4 months ago
(edited 4 months ago)

Ok, how about:
GoogleFrog -> IceFrog

or

GoogleFrog -> ToadyOne

AUrankhedgehogs pyro can't be renamed to arsonist because shieldbots have the criminal theme already.
+9 / -0

AUrankhedgehogs
4 months ago
(edited 4 months ago)

GoogleFrog---> PsychicToad?

Oops just realised.

Sorry Orf, looking at pyro..

Brawler:



Rapier:

Aphid

Valkrie:
Ladybug

+0 / -1



EErankAdminAnarchid
4 months ago
(edited 4 months ago)

quote:
I greatly dislike the proposed 'evil/magic creatures' theme.

I do have a reservation about more magical creatures making the game sound like WarCraft. However, for the same reason, i feel that spreading this theme across multiple factories only makes the warcraft feel worse.

(The Warcraft Feel is also what i dislike about our current music).

Banshee is an appropriate gunship name because banshees are often considered flying. It is also a reasonably frequent aerial unit name in other games (Tiberian Sun, Starcraft 2).

Revenants are not flying. Pick a flying creature if you want an undead gunship. My top mythical pick for Rapier would be Gargoyle. Since it's the second light combat gunship, it does fit the "magical flyer" theme with Banshee.
+0 / -0


AUrankAquanim
4 months ago
(edited 4 months ago)

To rephrase: I don't have a thing against mythological names in general. I agree that it is probably best to minimise its spread across factories. Since I have personally not liked any of the proposed renames in that direction for Cloaky units I prefer for that theme to be placed in Gunship instead.

I don't feel strongly one way or the other about changing Gremlin. 'Shade' has some basis in Greek myth and fits the unit perhaps better than Gremlin does.

edit: I suppose there's Spectre too. Theme or no theme in the rest of the factory, invisible names like 'spectre' and 'shade' for invisible units feels like it fits too well. Also alliterative bonus when combined with 'scythe'. I would say that Banshee is better known for its voice than for being invisible.

'Gargoyle' is probably a better name for Rapier (although I believe I have seen at least some portrayals of flying 'revenants', 'gargoyle' has more punch as a name imo).
+0 / -0



EErankAdminAnarchid
4 months ago
(edited 4 months ago)

An idea from #zk discussion: Slasher -> Lasher.

Onomatopoetic, agent noun, matches Dominatrix thematically, levenshtein-1 from the previous name. Implied: keep Dominatrix as-is.
+3 / -2


AUrankAquanim
4 months ago
I would suggest Eraser -> Iris. Iris is a Greek deity, but the relationship between the name and the unit (iris -> eyes, related to invisibility) is clear even if the player is unfamiliar with mythology. (I know a non-zero amount about Greek mythology but I didn't get Dolos without looking it up.)
+3 / -0

DErankkatastrophe
4 months ago
Why choose rhino for reaper and komodo, a comparativly smaller animal, for goliath?
+0 / -0

LVrankSenaven
4 months ago
quote:
Roach -> Rat


Plz, no. Its pathetic rename for such unit.

I suggest - 'banger'.
+0 / -0

LVrankSenaven
4 months ago
Infiltrator - karakurt.
+1 / -1

LVrankSenaven
4 months ago
Protector - Saviour.
Silencer - Purifier/Disinfectant/Cleanser/Scourge.
+1 / -1



EErankAdminAnarchid
4 months ago
(edited 4 months ago)

Silencer -> Lucifer.

Apocalyptic evil disguised as a bringer of light.
+1 / -0
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