Loading...
  OR  Zero-K Name:    Password:   

Replays that show good unit synergy

14 posts, 373 views
Post comment
Filter:    Player:  
sort


USrankOflameo
4 months ago
I am looking for replays to watch that will show me good examples of unit synergy. In particular I want to see Dirtbag + Rogue. I would also like to see a good use of Puppies.
+0 / -0


AUrankSnuggleBass
4 months ago
The game isn't really about synergy for the most part.

I mean, there is some, but it's only a small factor when it comes to unit comp. Most of the focus is on what the game-state is, and what your opponent's composition is.

If you like synergy, then shieldbot fac is the right choice for you, but rogue/dirtbag probably won't cut it. Rogue is more about countering specific opposition than synergising (two+ units with output greater than the sum of parts) with the rest of your units. Dirtbag is somewhat synergistic in that it can facilitate the use of other units, but it's pretty fiddly and without crisp decision-making and control you're going to waste more metal than you gain the vast majority of the time.

Synergy is kind of a red herring. It won't have you win the game that much, and if it does then whatever comp you're using will be nerfed (unlikely to happen though). Compositions in ZK are meant to be dynamic, meaning no matter how synergistic two units are there is a counter that an opponent can exploit.
+0 / -0




AUrankAdminGoogleFrog
4 months ago
I think synergy is more important than you think.
+0 / -0


EErankAdminAnarchid
4 months ago
I think many larger teamgames involve synergy between Swift, Shockley, and Silencer.
+4 / -0



CHrankAdminDeinFreund
4 months ago
https://zero-k.info/Battles?Title=&Map=SandCastles2&User1=DeinFreund&User2=&User3=&PlayersFrom=4&PlayersTo=4&Age=0&Mission=0&Bots=0

There you'll see a lot of synergy between cloaker, constructors, shockley, swifts and silencers. Often three times in a row.
+0 / -0


AUrankSnuggleBass
4 months ago
Maybe we're thinking about it differently, because I think for the most part our appraisal of compositions etc. overlaps.

When I think synergy I'm thinking of increasing the value of units through combining them, without reference to opponents units. For example, thug/law is synergistic because you combine them and their combat strength is multiplied. When units address each others weakness, that's good composition, but I don't think of it as synergy. Maybe I'm silly.
+0 / -0


USrankOflameo
4 months ago
I made some replays for me to watch by Letting Hard Circuit AI go at each other in a four way elimination match for all on http://zero-k.info/maps/Detail/21991. I haven't seen any multiple Shield Bots yet, but Shield Bots starts won every time.

When the AI uses Shield Bots it looks like the genre changes to WRPG with the way it uses the units. Rogues aren't suppose to shoot behind Dirtbags, but behind shields of Thugs, Felons and Aspis morphing Rogues into assaulty skirmishers so that they quickly take out static defenses. Dirbags are thrown into the Shield ball as cannon fodder for an escape instead of a Thug which is 6 times more expensive, but the AI does use Thugs if there are plenty of shields and the target is close to being taken out.
+0 / -0

NZrankhedgehogs
4 months ago
(edited 4 months ago)

Synergy does have importance - this helps cover one unit's weaknesses whilst getting defended themselves.
Something like Skirmishers + Riots.
or assaults + raiders.
Artillery + Raiders...

But almost always it's more on the tactics; are you going to attack head-on? perhaps funnel the opposition into a trap? Wage an attrition war? Fight small skirmishes?
What strategy will you use? Will you be shock and awe, obliterate them before they have a chance to attacl, or will you be a siegemaster, slowly pummeling their defenses?


It's better to go into tactics/strategy than to go to synergy units, mostly because as Bass said, it's on the gamestate and opposition composition of units. This is because tactics go into every factory - synergy does not, most tactics you learn can be put onto another factory - certainly not the exact same, the execution will have to be pulled off differently, but the spirit of it is the same



+0 / -0


USrankOflameo
4 months ago
I read the maneuvers guide as part of http://zero-k.info/mediawiki/index.php?title=Strategy_Treatise, and it is too vague for me to know what is workable by which factories. I can successfully run a containment against AI in the first three minutes with Light Vehicles and Cloaky Bots, but I can't do it with with Shield Bots because its skirmishers and support units like to behind shields but the shield units either don't travel fast enough or are too expensive to maintain a line that fast.

Shield Bot riots like to be in Shield Balls too because the shape of the area of its effect and not in a line. Some factories don't have the right tools to do certain tactics so they have to use tactics they have tools for.
+0 / -0

NZrankhedgehogs
4 months ago
"Most tactics" can go into another factory e.g;
Raiders work well for cloak/LV
Skirm spam works for Amph/Hover

Funneling works for HT.

+0 / -0


USrankOflameo
4 months ago
What is funneling?
+0 / -0

NZrankhedgehogs
4 months ago
Getting enemy units stuck in a tight place e.g mountain and then rushing with riots
+0 / -0

GBrank[Fx]Drone
4 months ago
rogues suck, dirtbag doesnt make that any less true
+0 / -0


AUrankSnuggleBass
4 months ago
Rogues have been buffed significantly since I last saw you play.

People seem mixed in their evaluation of them now. I think they're pretty good.
+0 / -0