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Game needs a forced tutorial before allowing you to play multiplayer

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FIrankMONGOLOID
17 days ago
(edited 17 days ago)

Tired of getting allies who build airpads or other dumb shit as their first building and then go afk because they start reading unit tooltips or googling how the game works because nothing is explained in-game, and then they lose the match in 2min to the first raiders because the game doesn't tell you to build radar+LLT+fast units at the start of each game.

Don't assume that every new player wants to read through the whole wiki before starting their first singleplayer match.
+7 / -0

ZArankAstran
17 days ago
I don't know if there should be a FORCED tutorial, but a RECOMMENDED tutorial might be a very good idea.

People build units that they don't know how to use; other people build nothing but energy structures like fusions in their base, and no units.

I just watched a game where a guy built about 7-8 fusions right next to each other surrounded by a forest of windgens. On the other side of the map was his opponent, with a silo loaded with napalm missiles. It was essentially GG for the energy lover for 70% of the game, except for that Mr Silo didn't know how to fire his missile. Eventually when he did, he fired it at some llt's :D

I was in a game where another dude built the most impressive porcy base ever; bristling with turrets, AA, shields and a crowd of riot units. He had about 4 facs and 2 Singus. Problem: It was in a corner, he never fired a single shot at the enemy (unless it was by accident) despite everybody on the team BEGGING him for action, and the kicker: the singus were not even connected to the grid.

I have to agree with the thread starter that some basics on teamplay would be good.

Some things that could be covered:

1) Support the guys that run out to expand. Don't leave them to die alone while you build your fusion reactor
2) ... and WHY are you building a fusion as your first energy structure? Don't build expensive stuff right away.
3) Don't build 2 factories before the 10 minute mark
4) Do build an LLT and a radar next to your fac. That way a single flea won't demolish your base.
5) Connect the energy grid to the guy closest to you
6) BUILD UNITS and ATTACK with them. So what if you lose 20 Glaives? It's a game. You will learn. Don't be scared.
7) If you see lots of air units from different enemy players early, BUILD AA please
8) If you see lots of skirmishers, build riots
9) If the enemy builds lots of porc, build artillery. Unless it's Astran. Just avoid that noob's porc and go round it ;)

Hope I wasn't too pompous. :)
+4 / -0


NOrankKingstad
17 days ago
A small number of these situations translate into negative reviews because new players get flamed by teammates and then we get called a toxic community..
+1 / -0



AUrankAdminGoogleFrog
17 days ago
Design a tutorial which is good enough to force on everyone. Do you think you should be immediately thrown into campaign mission 1 on your first launch? Realize that most of what you try to tell people will be completely lost and forgotten. There is no time or capacity for a complicated list of 10 items.
+2 / -0



AUrankAdminSaktoth
17 days ago
(edited 17 days ago)

I think the campaign does a pretty good job getting people up to speed and it being mandatory isn't really a bad idea, although people consistently forget about line move and repeat order the moment they learn about them. 'Spam glaive on repeat' is actually a great lesson for new players, if they actually manage to learn it.
+1 / -0


USrankkaen
17 days ago
(edited 17 days ago)

This seems like a case for tighter restrictions on teams matchmaking rather than forced tutorials. Or perhaps a lower maximum MMR range for team creation.

Maybe you should be required to have played some number of games before you can queue for teams MM. Until then you still have the option of coop, 1v1, campaign, or skirmish.

If this is mostly an experience from clusterfun rooms, you get what you get imo.
+2 / -0

NLrankmalric
17 days ago
Based on Kaen's ideas: if your matchmaker rank is worst x% (ex: 10%) allow to join matchmaker team's queue after you finish campaign on some level (ex: easy).

+0 / -0

FIrankMONGOLOID
17 days ago
quote:
allow to join matchmaker team's queue after you finish campaign on some level (ex: easy)


finishing campaign takes way too long, just have a short tutorial map with 1 of every unit on the map with cliffs/slopes/water
+0 / -0

USrankSteamLock
17 days ago
You don't have to complete multiplayer to get a complete understanding of the game. Just a few levels. Check the players campain lv prehaps? A lv 2-3 player should have a basic grasp at the importance of units hopefully...
+0 / -0


AUrank4hundred
17 days ago
Starting green in any online multi game u get flamed a few times cuz you have no idea wtf your doing, but hey that kinda makes you learn quicker too.

Maybe on first launch a big button suggesting go learn basics now... but not compulsory, never
+4 / -0

USrankPhytophyte
17 days ago
I would suggest bringing back the Sandbox Mission and pushing it to new players. It was a "mission" from before the campaign that instantly dropped the player into Isis Delta against an inactive AI. I think that it would serve nicely as a no-pressure environment for new players to explore the game's roster of units and mechanics, without inconveniencing online parties. This can already be done, technically, but having one-click access is going to be much more accessible to new players than setting up a custom skirmish.

If you really need a forced tutorial, just require that a player beat the Sandbox in ~5-10 minutes. That should only inconvenience someone with a poor understanding of game flow; anyone else can build ten [raider-of-choice] and breeze right through it.
+0 / -0


AUrankSnuggleBass
16 days ago
I agree that it's frustrating having five allies every game spamming their choice of caretaker, storage, fusion, factories, superweapons, or stingers.

But forced tutorials are baaaaaaad and I believe they're the wrong way of going about it.
+3 / -0



AUrankAdminGoogleFrog
16 days ago
The sandbox mission was boring as there is nothing to destroy and no prompt to do anything. The beginner skirmish AI sends one or two units to attack from about 15 minutes into the game and makes a small base to be bulldozed. This is much more interesting.
+0 / -0

USrankPhytophyte
16 days ago
I quite enjoyed having the sandbox option when I first started playing, but apparently I'm always the weird one. We could swap in the Beginner AI, as I think the more important aspect of the Sandbox mission was the one-click practice setup. Would that work, or is the whole idea just kinda lame?
+0 / -0

NLrankmalric
16 days ago
I think the problem is not widely spread - most people will learn after a couple of missions/people complaining/etc. But there are some that seem not to learn at all while playing in a multiplayer game and they can be very annoying because better players get "matched" with them.

Some possible reasons of why those people don't learn in team games (from my experience):
- they can't communicate with team mates, so they will not understand their suggestions/complaints.
- if they loose, they blame their ally (although you told them not to build 3 factories).
- if they win, then there is no reason to do things differently (building only nuke from start, wins IF someone else does all the work).

I agree that "forced" is not the way to go, but I would see the teams matchmaker more as a "league"/"goal". To play matchmaker team games you should do be able to do X (with X can be a set, like, not be worst 10% AND did not finish any campaign mission).

Alternatively, maybe people should control with whom they don't want to play in teams (ex: don't play in teams with anybody lower than Z elo).
+0 / -0


AUrank4hundred
15 days ago
(edited 15 days ago)

matchmaking should kinda of avoid this frustration anyhow for vets. But maybe consider options to place WHR\rank requirements on host battles? - vice versa too, max rank\WHR
+0 / -0

PHrankTaurusSilver
15 days ago
Learning curve and preference of learning varies from people to people
There just tends to be alot of people who tend to charge to their deaths in multiplayer and learn the game along the way as their preference

To counter the annoyance posed by this problem, I suggest that instead of putting an ELO/skill lock, let us put a "Beginner Matchmaking" where people around a certain margin of skill can queue on it. Let's say we should make them play Beginner Matchmaking 3 times before unlocking all matchmaking options. If they truly get interested in the game they will get better at it and dedicate their attention to learning for it so I think exposure to the Beginner Matchmaking 3 times would be a good way to expose the player to the game in hopes of getting their attention.

I leave it to the management's decision whether to make it a beginners vs AI or beginners vs beginner but I suggest filling player spots with AI to make up for the lack of people queuing at certain times.
+0 / -0


FIrankVermind
8 days ago
This page has a nice gif about line move:
http://www.metalfactions.pt/instructions.html

Maybe we should put this kind of stuff right on the Steam page and the main web page before anything else? Or in a Learn to Play ZK section?
+0 / -0