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Zero-K v1.6.5.1 - Balance update

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AUrankAdminGoogleFrog
6 months ago
(edited 6 months ago)


We have taken a look at games and feedback and come up with a small balance update. Inconsistent, and sometimes drastic, unit interaction with gravity guns and other sources of impulse have also been fixed.

Glaive is now slightly less cost effective, but their behavior is unchanged.
  • Cost 60 -> 65

Welder was dealing a lot more damage than intended, possibly due to an engine update or fixed scripting issue.
  • Cost 220 -> 230
  • DPS 72 -> 45

Pyro may now be more effective in groups.
  • Now avoids shooting through allies.

Constable is lighter as an experiment.
  • Cost 160 -> 130
  • Buildpower 5 -> 4

Seawolf previously escaped the ongoing sea changes:
  • Cost 200 -> 220

Shogun has a respite from the recent nerf, which was a bit too far:
  • Reload time 15s -> 12.5s

+9 / -0



EErankAdminAnarchid
6 months ago
I think i would have preferred a small (up to 7%) dps or hp nerf for the Glaive.
+0 / -0



AUrankAdminGoogleFrog
6 months ago
I think Glaive handles and behaves in a way that is fairly fun for all involved. It can feel strong to use but also can be countered with good retreat or positioning. Cost is safe in that it does not touch behaviour.

Cost changes are 'linear' (to abuse notation) whereas every other change could have crazy swinging effects depending on the exact matchup. For safety I prefer changing cost, especially since it cost 65 in the past.
+3 / -0

ZArankAstran
6 months ago
Nice changes overall.

I'm not a fan of massive swings in unit behaviour :)

Thanks for Pyro :D I'll be using JJ more methinks, from now on out.
+0 / -0


CHrankAdminDeinFreund
6 months ago
IMO these changes are rather heavy handed, I'd rather only see 1-2% changes in stats at this point. Either way, the direction I like.
+0 / -0



AUrankAdminGoogleFrog
6 months ago
Small changes are good, but I was fighting round numbers and surprises all the way.
  • Costs have to be at least be multiples of 5, lest we descend into madness. Multiplies of 10 are much preferred.
  • Crane already has 4 BP so it is a good template for 'abnormally low'.
  • When I got into testing Welder I was very surprised at how much damage it dealt. As I wrote, when I buffed its damage it could only just kill a Scorcher. Something drastically changed between then and now, as with 45 DPS it still only just kills a Scorcher (with some micro).

+1 / -0


AUrankAdminAquanim
6 months ago
(edited 6 months ago)

As for the ship changes, sea in general and the ship striders especially are considerably less tuned than the majority of ZK so larger changes seem reasonable.
+0 / -0


AUrankSnuggleBass
6 months ago
Pyro change super welcome~~!

This is a big quality of life improvement, and should help their scaling a bit better without breaking early game. Approval >9000.

Constable being lighter is interesting. It's a slight nerf to BP/cost efficiency, but IMO that's pretty over-rated as a predictor of worker strength.

It builds slower so a mex that would normally be built in 15 seconds will now be built in 18.75. Considering the worker will be there 3 seconds earlier due to 30 less cost, the first mex is coming up .75 seconds later, costing 1.5 metal (assuming mex is worth 2m/s). So you're up 28.5 metal at first mex. However, the second mex will be up 4.5 seconds later, costing 9 metal, bringing you down to 19.5 metal up. Your third mex will be 8.25 seconds late, losing a further 16.5 metal, bringing your saving down to 3. Everything past that goes into loss territory, and it costs extra if you stop to make energy or lotuses.

1 mex - 28.5 metal up
2 mex - 19.5 metal up
3 mex - 3 metal up

So economically it's going to do worse than before if your are immediately slamming four or more mex with it. There will be a short window where you have a small increase in map pressure as a result (+3-30 metal, +1m/s while building) however, and as a support unit it is superior in stats/cost.
+1 / -0

GBrankJazcash
6 months ago
quote:
I think Glaive handles and behaves in a way that is fairly fun for all involved. It can feel strong to use but also can be countered with good retreat or positioning.


I think that's why it's so strong. You can force your opponent's hand unless they match the same style with their own glaives or bandits. Reminds me a lot of early ling fights in SC2 ZvZ.
+0 / -0


GBrankNecrosjef
6 months ago
Good changes.


+0 / -0

PTrankraaar
6 months ago
i'd rather have a 300 cost welder with actual 95 dps "bandit" lasers instead of a "pretend" 40 dps weapon :/
+3 / -0


PLrankAdminSprung
6 months ago
quote:
Costs have to be at least be multiples of 5, lest we descend into madness. Multiplies of 10 are much preferred.

I thought you didn't want to ruin balance for the sake of pretty numbers :P
+1 / -0



AUrankAdminGoogleFrog
6 months ago
Those were plenty pretty enough.
+0 / -0


USrankFealthas
6 months ago
(edited 6 months ago)

I dont see why the constable has to pay for its abilities when convicts and conurers don't pay anything for their arguably better abilities.
+0 / -0



SErankGodde
6 months ago
Constable is faster, can jump AND got a slowing weapon. That is just not 1 ability.
+0 / -0

USrankRyMarq
6 months ago
Constable maybe made sense at 150 for its ability suite, but people really buy heavily into the slow-beam being good in a way I never did.
+0 / -0


AUrank4hundred
6 months ago
im not too familiar with pyro issues, but does this mean pyro will hold fire more often if friendly gets in its way?, could this actually make them less efective in cluster?
+0 / -0

USrankRyMarq
6 months ago
Pyro friendly fire did kinda suck, because the things you nicked would burn. Mattered less for pyro swarms, ironically. Not sure this will matter a ton for a few reasons, part of which is that they might just do it anyway almost as often because the fire is AoE.

Pyro generally did not really want to be shooting through each-other, but it was also usually a mixed bag when it came up. Occasionally it was an actually bad idea. It will probably be a pretty mixed bag but ultimately a minor change.
+0 / -0

PRrankScrangos
6 months ago
Constable feels like a super weak con. The beams range is too short, if its being useful its dying and cons dying are never useful. It doesnt do any damage so i think a constable range boost might put it closer to where itr should be if its gonna pay so hard for having a weapon. between 380 and 450.
+0 / -0

PTrankraaar
6 months ago
I like the glaive and pyro changes.

the current slow beam on constable is excellent against riots with relatively low hp, not raiders, it allows lotuses to kill reavers easily, for example.

jump is an ability that requires micro, I think it'd work better on a higher weight builder, equivalent to the welder, but with jump and bot slope tolerance instead of relatively high HP, and could also have a normal damage or mixed damage weapon with shorter range.

the simple weight change that could be done would be to scale the 3d model 1.3x-1.5x and double the cost and attributes. maybe replace the 200 slow dps for 70 normal dps beam for better sinergy with moderators and jugglenauts.


+1 / -0
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