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Is this how coop games always are?

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USrankCerevox
3 months ago
So i am fairly new to zero-k, just picked the game up a week or two ago, plowed through the campaign, browsed the forums and YT, and then hit MP. Did a few rounds in a really big game with like 15 people and had fun. Wanted to play something like that tonight but apparently nothing was starting so decided to give the matchmaker a whirl.

Started a coop game. Me and 2 others. I start spiders, spray out fleas everywhere, then recluses. Making mexes, making wind between everything. Perfectly normal, right? One of the other players is rushing a singularity while the other is rushing what appears to be a storage farm. I don't notice atm though, its my first coop, I don't want to be the drag on the team. I push to halfway, and notice we are energy locked. Surley that can't be, i have been building tons of power. Look over at my two teammates and see the above stuff. Mexes with a 1/2 built singularity, like 2 solar total.

They dug in at choke points way back and are building just nonsense stuff. Even I can see its silly. I do the reasonable and ask in a polite manner what the plan is. At this point I also suspect they are setting all the stuff to max priority build because despite having pushed the AI back and taken more mexes, none of my troops are actually building. Unsure how to even check if your teammate is running at priority on resources.

"Hush, stop talking."
"I am doing what I want."
"I just want to annoy you."
"I am playing however I want."

Sure, I guess, anyone can play how they want, but why join coop if you want to play single player? I thought this was supposed to be a team thing? Why screw over the alleged team when you could have done the exact same thing in singleplayer?

So, I guess the real question is, are the matchmaker coop games always like that? Because if so, I won't even bother with the matchmaker tab and stick to the custom lobby rooms since they seem more organized. That wasn't just bad, that was an aggressively unpleasant experience.
+6 / -1

PRrankScrangos
3 months ago
If its like regular multiplayer resources are evenly split with refund overtime for economy buildings. So their setting their priority would only affect t heir share, not yours.

If everyone is sharing the same units however i dont think the above applies.
+0 / -0



GBrank[GBC]1v0ry_k1ng
3 months ago
Matchmaker coop is where you find the lowest ability group players, yes. Default settings are always used and you fight vs an AI much weaker than the stock AI of ZK. You might find organised rooms more interesting. You’ll always meet new players near release time, but don’t worry, people will improve over time.
+1 / -0

ZArankAstran
3 months ago
I had few team MM experiences similar to that. In the one case there was the classic storage spammer, with - I shit you not - probably 20 storages - and in the other I had a guy that built a sort of a castle complete with ramps and walls and storages win his starting position. In another memorable game there was a guy that built an ultra-fortress with swarms of troops in a corner, including 2 singus. He never made a single offensive move nor did he connect his singularity reactors to the grid.

Guys like these drive me crazy because they kill your game. While I'm fighting and dying trying to expand our zone of influence they're just sitting around. It's like they think I'm the noob for losing so many troops or something. But without map control you will lose in ZK. That means they will lose too. It's "team", not "last man standing".

I mostly resort to insults ("this is completely useless") and draw big pictures of lobsters over their base. I know I shouldn't, but they've made my game unpleasant, so ...

I don't really have a solution, beyond saying "form a party" with people that at least try to win and head to MM with them.
+3 / -0

USrankShadowWolfTJC
3 months ago
I guess I'm lucky to have not run into those sorts of players, but then again, I've only played a handful of online matches.

By the way, is there a way to set game rules so that certain things are limited in how many could be built at a time? I believe there's a way to limit which things cannot be built in a custom match, but is there a way to, say, limit how many storages a player can have at a time to just 1 storage before they can't build anymore?
+0 / -0



GBrank[GBC]1v0ry_k1ng
3 months ago
People seem to have a real hangup about Storages lol

New players making storages is just a symptom of that player not understanding the game - the storage itself is not the problem.
+2 / -0



CHrankAdminDeinFreund
3 months ago
(edited 3 months ago)

For quality co-op games you should really go to the battle list instead of the matchmaker and find/host a room that fits you. You get much more control over the map, opponent and who you play with.

If you want to play competitive games, the matchmaker is a much better fit. For teams I'd recommend you grab some friends and party up (invite them to game on steam). Then you'll be guaranteed to have good teammates. Otherwise, due to the game's relatively low popularity, the matchmaker will often pair you with newbies of wildly varying skill.
+1 / -0


JPrankgajop
3 months ago
Is coop matchmaking doing any proper matchmaking? Like matching people of similar skill - maybe we need a coop elo?


I would also not want to play with total newbs.
+0 / -0



CHrankAdminDeinFreund
3 months ago
JPrankgajop why would you want to play coop matchmaking at all? Do you find it interesting or challenging to play against CAI?
+0 / -0



PLrankSprung
3 months ago
Ideally CAI would be replaced by Circuit so even good players would be able to have a challenge.
+0 / -0


JPrankgajop
3 months ago
Indeed. Coop could be made challenging/interesting if you wanted to. And why not? Is there something with ZK that prevents it from having fun cooperative experiences?

+0 / -0



GBrank[GBC]1v0ry_k1ng
3 months ago
Can we remove CAI? It gives the AI a bad name (as new players won't realise its a different AI to Circuit).
+0 / -0


DErankkatastrophe
3 months ago
(edited 3 months ago)

how big is the winrate of players in coop?
And why are you sending the signal that willful toxicity and trolling is completely okay if you are "a new player" (whatever that means). You don´t tolerate toxicity in the forum no matter what, yet about ingame it is a totally different story. If Cerevox tells the truth those players openly admitted that they were just there to ruin games. at least at that point i think a callout would be useful.
in my opinion the first time in a new enviroment is the most important, so it would actually be important to tell them our standards right at this moment. Yes you might scare new players away. Those that are here to ruin the fun of other new players. Other players that might leave because they were annoyed by the trolls.
To make this clear, i am NOT talking about the "this new player plays too bad, why are they in my team" but solely about malicious trolls. For those it shouldn´t be relevant if they are new or not. Tolerance in that case is misplaced.

USrankCerevox, ZArankAstran

my usual procedure in this case is going afk or resign and search for a new game.
+2 / -0

LTrank[pikts]wolas
3 months ago
I think you currently have low ELO(mmr) so matchmaker matches you with newbies. But some newbies did complete "tutorial" while others not. You just have to win couple of games to get higher ELO. Doesnt know if that would matter in vs coop games.

And those massive games with 16+ people are mostly with people who dont play seriously, but have tons of experience(like me) + bunch of newbs (like you, and real newbs who spam storages). In those rooms you will see weirdest and most fun stuff, happens mostly in European evenings, but with steam release I guess most of the time? According to devs this is not true ZK experience.

Real tryhards play 1v1 and other small team games. Not fun for me. "True" ZK experience.
+0 / -0



GBrank[GBC]1v0ry_k1ng
3 months ago
ZK is a competitive game and is balanced that way. That doesn't mean it can't be played casually brah
+3 / -0


USrankInstitutionalized
3 months ago
(edited 3 months ago)

you know what is funny...... is you callnig us aggressive but only wanted us to play a certain way....

You are hilarious friend...

typing all this shit out....

You complained then left....

Then we won......




Also..... You spammed WIND power ALL OVER THE MAP......

ALL over the map and we are the ones building silly things?

yikes.




FINAL and most important note i think.


We won SHORTLY after you left.


And im fed up with all the turds like yourself who think this game can only be played ONE fucking way.




Appreciate you sending all your units in to die before you left.........


Classy.

// merged quadpost - sprung
+0 / -1


DErankkatastrophe
2 months ago
Watched game. http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/531935?ShowWinners=True
+0 / -0

NLrankBlackdutchie
2 months ago
Watched replay, siding with Cerevox mostly. Other two didn't play quite as silly as in OP, they rushed fusions out before singu's, but still built way more storage than needed (0), and responded like assholes when asked what they were doing and why they weren't doing it in single player.

As to inst's reply, you were being aggressive. He left because he was just playing a single-player game vs. three AI's, and he came for a co-op game.

Additionally, basic wind generator network with a single-line windfarm is not 'spamming silly wind all over the map', it's expected behaviour.

Point 3: You did not win 'shortly' after he left, you were at 75% of match length when he left, and you won by nuking a basic AI, do not feel proud of yourselves for that.

I am fed up with all the brats like yourself who think team games involve no cooperation.

Appreciate you trying to spin sending all his units in to die as him sending all his units in to die. I was watching the replay at x10 speed and even then there was plenty of time to turn around. Instead you select the whole ball and order an attack on a grizzly. It's your own fault those units died. Nice spin though, classy.
+3 / -0

CArankTacoMan
2 months ago
Agreed. This seems to be a common mistake made by new players in general. I encountered a couple of these players while playing in team matchmaking. In one case I had a player who stayed in base and refused to expand, and I barely managed to clinch the win 2v1 in the front because the other team wasn't expanding well enough at the same time.

I told him that expansion wins the game in ZK and sitting in base doesn't contribute; he made some argument about overdrive setups being a far more lucrative source of metal than any sort of expansion, which I told him was very silly.

Then he called me a troll who knows nothing about the game and never responded to me again. :>
+0 / -0


USrankInstitutionalized
2 months ago
(edited 2 months ago)

Farewell Zero-k. lol Good luck. Was no spin, watch it again, if anyone is spinning anything its this pointless thread. simply took advantage of the fact he sent his units in. doesnt negate the fact that he sent them in.

Anyways, good luck with everything.
+0 / -0