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Radar dot size

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USrankRandomX
10 days ago
Would the radar be revealing too much information if the dot size corresponded with the unit size?
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PLrankSprung
10 days ago
(edited 10 days ago)

Yes. It would effectively allow you to know which unit the target is because sizes are faily unique. There was a similar bug in the past, see https://springrts.com/mantis/view.php?id=2947
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CHrankAdminDeinFreund
9 days ago
Last time I checked, unit velocity also wasn't randomized. As units have very precise and unique velocities, this allows to identify many units just by their radar dot velocity.
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PLrankSprung
9 days ago
That is true but does not apply to buildings and idle units. Generally we'd like radar not to reveal unit types because at this point it becomes almost equivalent to LoS. Often you can tell what a unit is from its movement anyway (as in, human glance, not precise widget values) though so if a proof of concept widget appears that identifies moving units it would probably be fine to make it a builtin mechanic. It would be good to hear what AUrankAdminGoogleFrog thinks though.
+1 / -0

FIrankAdminAlcur
9 days ago
An AI already infers unit types through radar icon velocities. It is ZKGBAI if I recall correctly.
+1 / -0



AUrankAdminAquanim
9 days ago
(edited 9 days ago)

Then somebody would make a widget to make units move at the speed of other units to spoof the first widget. (Formation movement already yields partial functionality.) Obviously this carries some tactical disadvantage in some scenarios but all the same...
+5 / -0

HRrankMajo
7 days ago
Maybe add a randomized movement value to wiggle of radar dots and increased wiggle range on non-indentified radar dots?
So for example there are 2 solars right next to one another, one has 301% radar wiggle speed on regular wiggle range, other has 92% wiggle speed but 233% wiggle range.
So one will be always in a small area moving really fast until identified(restores wiggle values to current default) or slow wiggling but in a large area.

Essentially some radar dots will be spazzing the hell out and others can be slowly moving or anything in between.
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USrankRandomX
7 days ago
I don't think the radar should be 100% useless for attacking, and too much wiggle would break units that shoot at radar dots and have low rate of fire. Not to mention that it would be annoying to look at. I was just thinking (reason for my OP) that if knowing the exact size of a unit via radar would be TMI, it would at least be possible to have two or three kinds of dots, one for small units, one for large, and maybe one for buildings. However, looking at the responses (thanks to all who responded!) I can see that this is probably not a great idea.
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EErankAdminAnarchid
7 days ago
(edited 7 days ago)

quote:
An AI already infers unit types through radar icon velocities. It is ZKGBAI if I recall correctly.

ZKGBAI radarID module tried to identify units from their radar-observed velocities by calculating their average speed over periods of time (to eliminate wiggle inaccuracy).

However, it wasn't very accurate - some units do have fairly similar speeds until you completely eliminate uncertaity - and the AI had no way to reason about the uncertainty.

As a consequence, when it received information from radarID like ."this dot can be a dirtbag or a venom, what do?", it pretty much could only do one thing: "let's send a scout and figure out".
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RUrankFirepluk
7 days ago
quote:
Last time I checked, unit velocity also wasn't randomized. As units have very precise and unique velocities, this allows to identify many units just by their radar dot velocity.

Wupgetize!
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EErankAdminAnarchid
7 days ago
quote:
Wupgetize!

Und dann: someone ctrl+clicks a bunch of Fleas and a Cyclops. Seeing 50 Cyclops enter your radar, you resign.
+1 / -0

HRrankMajo
6 days ago
Advanced radar used to reduce and even just stop radar wiggle completely, it could still work with my previously mentioned balancing change.
Give each radar like 20-25% radar wiggle reduction inside their range and no more spazzing out radar dots
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