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Prefabricated bases

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(I don't know much at all about making forum posts and this is my first but their always a time for firsts)

I once read a post from MXrankmoleculeman88 (How do you link people, I don't know) about prefabricated buildings, it seems interesting enough and would offer lots of game play diversity. Building on that, I thought up of why not use existing features and buildings to form packages that can be built like regular buildings. For example you need to defend a coastline, plop down a coastal defence base or need a front line repair yard? plop one down.

Idea: link up existing features and buildings (terraform mainly) to form packages which can then be placed down like normal buildings and are built like normal buildings at once but compared to building the components of each separately, are a lot cheaper. This can allow for quickly building strong but cost effective fortifications or other useful combination structures which can serve many purposes. The price discount is to promote their use and to make them more affordable and add incentive to building the package instead of the separate components.

Pros:
-cheaper
-less micro
-new gameplay

Cons:
-not customizable

I also made some horrible low quality proofs of concepts for coastal defence platforms:

(still don't know how to post proper pictures... but am learning)
description: The Mark 1 coastal defence platform is a cheap option to protect coastal waters form enemy naval and air threats. armed with multiple torpedo tubes and gauss cannons, it can deal with any ill prepared enemy naval force. armed with a small anti aircraft suite that is formidable but lacks against any dedicated force.

Price: 3000-4500 (its cheap for whats included)
**(edit:) for this one, I consider removing the urchins on the base itself as they are extra.


description: The Mark 2 coastal defence platform is a formidable foe. Heavily armed with 9 torpedo tubes, 6 gauss cannons, 4 flak cannons, 6 laser aa and a missile aa suite, it can stand up to most threats from sea or air. also equipped with multiple shield generators, it can stand up to a strong bombardment from all but the most heaviest artillery. Its greatest asset its its long range plasma artillery battery capable for supporting allied naval forces or providing counter battery fire, it can pummel enemy naval ships into submission if unaccounted for. The platform also includes a fusion reactor which while unable to meet all of its requirements, provides large amount of energy.

Price: 5000-8000

(bad quality due to shield spam, should reduce number of generators)
description: The ultimate bastion, the mark 3 coastal defence fortress is near impune to any form of attack. Armed with over a dozen torpedos, 4 lucifers, 2 desolators and 5 gauss cannons and surface or underwater target can be decimated if in range. Supported by 2 long range plasma batteries to provide long range fire support, only the strongest enemy fleets can hope to even come close to the bastion itself. It's AA suite is capable of decimating anything but the largest aerial assaults. equipped with multiple shield generators, only the largest artillery pieces can hope to cause any damage. However it does contain a glaring weakness, its power for all of its heavy weapons comes form 2 fusions connected by 2 pylons at its rear, unshielded and unprotected, if a small raiding force or lucky bomber were to knock them out, the bastion would lose its greatest assets so be careful to protect them.

Price: 9000-15000 (This really is quite overpowered but still defeatable)


This was just my take on some prefab bases and the costal platforms are just a proof of concept of how I envision them to b. (I really don't know how to end this off or what else to say)

I would really love to hear your feedback and opinions on this topic. I may (time permitting) post more of these proofs of concepts with defence ideas such as repair yards, naval bases and more :)






Edit 1: (new pictures :)

description: A forward field repair outpost designed to support troops, its 6 caretakers can rapidly heal up any armed force. A forward airpad can be also used to repair and rearm allied aircraft closer to the front. A cloaking generator hides allied troops inside the compound and light defences protect the base form assult.
Price: 1000


description: The forward artillery post provides on call heavy artillery support anywhere on the front line. With its large long range plasma battery, the post can provide covering fire, counter battery fire or just eradicate enemy troops and defences. Its light aa is good enough to protect it from any unwary aircraft but will easily fall to any dedicated air assault. 4 stardusts provide anti troop defences to the otherwise vulnerable platform. While powerful, a dedicated attack will lead to the swift destruction of the artillery post.
price: 3800-4000


description: The mark 1 air space defence platform (asdp) is a light aa defence station designed to contest enemy air power. It can shoot down light enemy forces with its layed aa. Its long range threshers can deal with most threats but for threats that come to close, its 2 hacksaws can be a nasty surprise. However do not be fooled, it is defenceless to ground attack and will fall to a dedicated air attack.
cost: 1500


description: the Mark 2 ASDP is a major upgrade on the previous one. Able to repel significant enemy forces, it features 4 flak cannons, 6 laser aa batteries, 4 short range dual missile towers and 2 long range missile aa guns. It is also protected by 6 light laser towers that can repel light enemy ground troops allowing it to be constructed closer to the front. It's aa capabilities present a clear no fly zone to enemy aircraft and its layered aa can protect itself from enemy aircraft that wander too close. However remember it is not capable of withstanding direct attack from enemy ground troops and a dedicated aerial assault may overcome its aa and cause damage to the platform.
Price: 3000


description: The mark 3 ASDP is a bastion. able to repel any aerial attack, it can bring an enemy airfleet to its knees if it dares enter the large coverage of its aa guns. With 12 flank cannons, 11 laser aa batteries, 2 long range aa missile batteries and 2 super long range aa guns, its layered aa can delete any aircraft that flies into range. 2 shield generators protect is from direct attack however it is vulnerable to ground attack and thus must be built behind friendly lines.
cost: 4000-5000

edit: fixed images and player link (see edit button to view diff to your version, learn more about forum formating at http://zero-k.info/Forum/Thread/22366 )




+0 / -1
56 days ago
My goal for this was to get the developers to look towards implementing something similar to this. This type of idea is focused on solving the problem of terraform being not used often to create strong defensive positions or the use of some of the more exotic weapons due to cost and use, these packages provide a good solution as for a pretty cheap price they offer strong solutions to problems that many players face. While spending this in units is always a better option, these bases serve as an alternative way to counter a numerically superior foe, or to help people who just love cool forts and stuff (like me) have a much easier day making them. Ideally this would be best in chicken or ffa modes but team games may also see a use.
+0 / -0
56 days ago
If any of you feel that these are a bit to overpowered in terms of what they give per their price, remember that a good combination of units cna easly decimate these bases but requires good micro and tactics. The mark 3 can be knocked out by a small raiding party disabling the grid or fusions, while the earlier ones can be knocked out using hit and run or flanking tactics.
+0 / -0
As well as i like the basic idea, i think this would only motivate people to build even more porc then they already do.

And for me, porc is the thing that kills the most interessting part of the game for me, raiding, strategic moves aso.
So i would agree to see such things, but more for eco stuff etc. Like mex with solars around, simple stuff like that.


Also pls, dont build such fortresses in real team games, normaly they cost to much metal for their use.


Just a little remark, i think you are a little off with the prices. The last one looks more like a +20.000 metal basic cost construction. Adding 20% (for the automatic layout) to its price would be 24.000 metal.
+1 / -0
FIrankFFC
56 days ago
If anything like this would ever be in the game and I doubt there would ever be, it would be at most 1k metal.

And even then why would you want worthless turrets when you could have it in Eco instead
+0 / -1
In response to Anir, this is infact a counter to porc. proper porc relies on well placed and well defended strong points.Thus in a full game, It would be needed to be spammed everywhere, whereas a line of stingers are cheap, a single costal fort is much costlier but provides a focal point of defence. The purpose of prefab bases is to provide a strong fort in critical areas, like a forward command post or a fort on a vital beach. These bases aren't really spammable as they are to costly for that, but still enable people to defend vital choke points. As well, each has its own weakness, the mark 1 isn't that powerful and some aritlery can defeat it, the mark 2 is average and well rounded but any dedicated assault can wipe it out, while the mark 3 is prone to being flanked and have its power shutdown. Also, these types of bases are meant to be flanked and avoided. The purpose is that that if you build one, you can either ensure your enemy has to use his whole army to bust through one or deploy his around the base.

As for FFC, I dont believe its too much of a metal investment, a Mark 1 or 2 is all you really need so 5000 metal to create a solid base that can repel normal enemy raids is worth it. As for investing in eco, in any case that argument can be made for anything, why invest in anything other then eco? These bases are just meant to be a cheaper and better alternative to building porc everywhere.

edit: think of it like a force multiplier, you want to force the enemy to fight your army near one of these.

edit 2: and like all forms of static defences, the best counter is tactical nukes and emp missiles.

edit 3: In response to your remark, that is the intended goal, to make the package cheaper then the sum of its parts, actually the last ones real cost stis somewhere along the 30k metal but a massive discount is implemented to make it feasible but still effective.
+0 / -0
quote:
How do you link people, I don't know


You can link people, games, and clans by
`@_Shaman`, `@B772120`, `@ADVENT`

`@_Shaman, an `@ADVENT clan leader, played on `@B772120
USrank_Shaman, an ADVENT clan leader, played on Multiplayer B772120 6 on Comet Catcher Redux v3.1
quote:

https://imgur.com/4JOdf9u


Use [ img] with the image link. Such as: (remove the space)

[ img]https://i.imgur.com/4JOdf9u.png[/img]

[Spoiler]

+3 / -0
53 days ago
Is it worth making more of these bases?
+0 / -1

53 days ago
A focal point of defense - for your enemy to walk around no doubt. Or silo into oblivion.

Technically this could be done purely with widgets. Technically. In practice it would be an unholy pain to implement it in a way that could actually be used, which no one with half-decent skills would.
+0 / -0

53 days ago
Zero-K generally emphasizes players to build their own unit/structure compositions. Look at the units and how almost all of them are specialized somehow. The point is to mix and match them to create a composition that covers its weaknesses and is fitting to the current situation.

Prefab bases go against this philosophy, which is why I doubt something like this will ever be included.
+1 / -0
52 days ago
While this isn't really suited for normal pvp gameplay, it might be useful for PvE - especially if we could get the AI (or a special AI type) to build these. It might not make it more challenging, but it will make it more appealing aesthetically.
+3 / -0

52 days ago
As an AI dev, gotta say no to that. Lamer might but no freaking way. AIs and terraform don't really mix well, and getting an AI to do nonsense like that is absurd. Not to mention that any of those porc fortresses would cost like 3-5k metal. That's like a dante or two worth. Not to mention all the checks upon checks you'd have to do just to be sure you could build the porc fortress without trampling something else in the process, or to be sure that something else wouldn't be in the way to screw it up.

This game doesn't even favor porc fortresses, and it would suck if it did. If you want to fight enemies behind a porc fortress make a campaign mission or something. If you want to build porc fortresses play chickens. Doing something like that in an actual game just isn't practical enough to justify the cost and effort.
+0 / -0

52 days ago
I'd say the only uses that are practical is 4 solar around a metal extractor saved as a template.

That is literally the only thing that would be useful. Everything else can be accessed quickly and placed via hotkeys.(I don't use these really though)

+0 / -0

52 days ago
I skimmed this discussion, but factorio allows this with the blueprint correct? A preplanned queued building plan would be nice. A lot of us probably tend to build our own developed build strategy, at the beginning of each multiplayer game, and pretty much repeat it each mp game.

It would be beneficial to me to have a preplanned build queue, while maybe i'm scouting the enemy. Just my opinion.
+1 / -0

52 days ago
To add to UltraGodzilla's post, to me it might be beneficial to queue the mex, 3 windmills, and a laser on each mex spot.
+1 / -0
52 days ago
Good feedback.
So while the general population doesn't want this to turn into porc fortresses, it wouldn't harm to discuss more deeply about this would it.

While at the top it may look like porc, it has a key difference, it can be easily countered with good strategy, one thing I looked into when making these. The stronger the base is, the more easy it is to destroy it. While the low tier ones have no exposed reactor shafts, the bigger ones do. For the mark 3 coastal defence platform its the 2 fusions and 2 power grids that are exposed with no defences. It wouldn't take much to knock them down, a small raiding party could sneak in behind and destroy them. Thus rendering fortress near defenceless. The ASDP mark 3 is similar as it lacks any ground defence. This means that while strong upfront, skilled use of tactics and unorthodox unit combinations can be used to neutralize the fortresses promoting counterplay and a short of meta change to using underused or fully troll units.
+0 / -0
52 days ago
You should't forget that these defensive lines wouldnt be the only thing in the field. And who says that these two fusions are its only power source?

Your general idea is good, but it wont work because things like raiding, or killing the enemy power supply wont be easily done when you are at the point that you can afford that.
+2 / -0
52 days ago
As to clear up, these prefab bases are like a "unit" made of preexisting units and terraform. So you just place a prefab structure like you would a fusion. However like a normal structure, you can't change what you place ie like you place a fusion but can't customize your fusion to have a llt sticking out of it or something similar. Same with these prefab bases, it is a package that you place depending on what you need done ie you need to shoot down planes or defend a beach etc and on your budget. However the downside to this is you can't customize what you put, so if you don't want urchins in your coastal defence platform, then make your own defenses or deal with it. The counter to this is that compared to building the same thing normally, you get a hefty discount on the package. Hence why you get a lot of bang for your buck but you don't get to pick what that bang is. While it may sound op, cheap and good porc, it isn't as there are alot of good counters. knock out the power grid or the things supplying energy to the fortresses. As well as I made it specifically that the fusions don't provide enough power for some of the bigger weapons that your still need to externally source power. Know out the grid and bam! the big guns are disabled and you can take the fortress. Or make more use of the tactical silo, quakes may finally have an use for knocking out the terraform. Shockley's can stun the fortress for you to get close and use bombs, or target the aa and stun it allowing friendly bombers to assault the base. This makes it so that these bases support new and unique tactics that aren't otherwise used.
+0 / -0

52 days ago
So you want porc fortresses for less than half the resources that building them manually would actually cost, and to have it done automatically for you. Forget it, not happening. Having all the stuff built automatically can be done, although not easily and nobody with the ability has any interest. Having the stuff built at less than half the cost is cheating, and rewards dumb behavior that normally gets you votekicked from team games.

The reason why people don't do stuff like that is because an equal cost in berthas or silos would wipe it off the map. Some of those could even buy you an actual superweapon. Not to mention maps are so varied that most of those would not be portable from one map to another.

Like, learn to play. And maybe to do math while you're at it.
+3 / -0

51 days ago
ON another note can you set me up 4 solar as an auto build template aeonios
?
+0 / -0
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