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Remove Air and Gunships from the game

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This post has been downvoted below -5 and collapsed, click here to expand


Hi All

you have probably seen this coming for a while, but both air and by a measure gunships are no longer materially useful to the game. There is no longer any point having these unit in the game, they have only become a trap for new players to fall in to, either causing too much AA to be built or wasting metal on a factory that does not serve a purpose any more due to successive nerfs.

A factory can not remain viable when only 1 or 2 units in the entire lineup are still useful, as such they need to be removed from the game for the benefit of the game.

Kind Regards

ddab
+2 / -15
3 months ago
has sea been fixed yet?
+1 / -0
3 months ago
This post has been downvoted below -5 and collapsed, click here to expand
considering devs in charge are potatoes ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
+1 / -10
3 months ago
You might have a point about airfac. Airfac units feel like the're in an awkward spot, the're trying to be airplanes in a game whose scale doesn't quite support airplanes. Or at least, not airplanes of their size. I feel like they could work better if they went in the direction of being smaller and flying higher.

Gunships are fine. The're hard to use, but the're fast and flying so they have to be. Nimbuses are probably too dominant over the other gunships, though.
+4 / -0


3 months ago
Gunships are clearly in better position than they were few patches ago.

Locusts are bit low DPS for their cost, but they make effective raiders if enemy doesn't have tools to respond to fast Locust + Gnat assault. Could potentially still use some tweaks on direction or another.

Gnats are still super good with their stun, making them exellent supports, though for similar results Widow is often better due to its stealth and long stun duration even if it was wiped the second after. Gnats still compete with their response speed.

Harpies can be used as army supports to let slower ground units catch faster enemies by slowing them down. Their accuracy also makes them good at countering small numbers of raiders as long as they manage to land a hit.

Nimbuses are effective brawlers that can melt anything with enough numbers as long as they aren't countered.

Revenants are effective at hunting high priority enemy targets. For their cost they aren't tootanky compared to Ravens if we also take into account their slower speed, but they achieve similar results and the fact that they can reload anywhere makes them really effective if got into enemy back lines and enemy doesn't have air superiority to counter.

Hercules and Charon have their uses for Snitch drops and occasional rushes such as scallop drops. Hercules is also very good at countering Crabs by simply picking them up.

Trident is of course effective AA against Ravens and Swifts.

Blastwings are probably the only GS unit that doesn't have any use proper use besides scouting. It was already questionable before when it managed to work as early raider by killing mexes, but the increased mex health took that away as well. Now it is just unit that can't really aproach any form of defence.



Air on the other hand is more of a specialised assault and support factory. The fast speed makes air units able to react and take advantage from different chances all around the battlefield from killing enemy raiders to bombing strategic targets such as Tremors or just maintaining air superiority to ensure enemy doesn't get to take advantage from holes in AA defences. Especially thunderbird is strong force multiplier in terms of stopping entire enemy assaults or rendering enemy defences vulnerable for assaults.

GS and air are both factories that will eventually get shut down by AA as game goes on, and that is fine. The existence of GS or air will force enemy to spend metal on AA which is metal taken away from ground units. The mobile nature of air units also forces enemy to cover their entire frontline with AA because otherwise you can still harass the unprotected flanks.
+9 / -0
yes but :
1. you can move Charon and Hercules to constructor built units and let every con build them, then they would see them used for their actual purpose - getting units from the lab to the battlefield fast. Often people need the Charon for slow assaults on a big map but a fac switch to GS is too expensive for a lab that you only want for a single utility unit

2. planes are a 1 shot lab, you get 1 maybe 2 good attack runs with bombers then you are better off just reclaiming the whole factory and all your units because the AA will eat even a licho alive (i have never seen these make cost at the 2k price)

3. gunships are great at raiding, and yes the brawler ball is amazing, but any AA unit will shred all gunships fast. Current AA is balanced around killing licho and being build by noobs in huge numbers so its cheap, long range, and ludicrously strong vs gunships. It means even a Razor will kill a brawler, that's a 3x ROI on an assault unit from "light" porc and a RK can kill 1 brawler and damage a second before it dies...


[edit]
its sad to say but yes i am actually serious about this proposal, in its current state all air and anti-air is damaging to the game because it is in such a bad state. Its currently so unbalanced and unworkable that it is a gimmick, more a checkbox exercise so that we can say "yes we have air in our game" then a practical choice. Its no longer fun to play, it has no place on the battlefield, and it never survives to the late game because its too fragile, too expensive, and too weak to actually see combat and survive.
+0 / -4
quote:
the AA will eat even a licho alive (i have never seen these make cost at the 2k price)

You cannot have watched very many games then.

It's true that in the lategame when there is lots of AA around bombers become more useful for defence (where most of your opponent's AA cannot reach). Owl and Swift remain useful at pretty much all stages for scouting.

I regard "forcing the opponent to make way more AA than my planes cost, then switching" as a good investment.

I couldn't speak much about Gunship having rarely played it at any point whether it was good or not.
+5 / -1
3 months ago
quote:
You cannot have watched very many games then.

It's true that in the lategame when there is lots of AA around bombers become more useful for defence (where most of your opponent's AA cannot reach). Owl and Swift remain useful at all stages.

I couldn't speak much about Gunship having rarely played it at any point whether it was good or not.


licho cost 2k metal
they do 2k damage
they reload for 30-120 seconds a pop depending on repair (that now takes longer to do due to nerfs)
2 RK will kill a licho during its bombing run easily, 1 will take it out of commission for 2 minutes to repair

sorry that will not make cost vs anything tougher then raiders, and you need to kill a lot of raiders
you are on a nostalgia trip if you think its still effective outside really niche circumstance
+0 / -3
quote:
2 RK will kill a licho during its bombing run easily, 1 will take it out of commission for 2 minutes to repair

Two Razors will only kill a Likho if the Likho flies directly over them and through their entire firing circle twice. This is not a frequent occurence. Far more often the Likho dips into their firing range briefly to bomb a target and takes little to no damage. Razors are piss poor offensively against bombers; they are only problematic at all for planes because they are difficult to kill.

quote:
sorry that will not make cost vs anything tougher then raiders, and you need to kill a lot of raiders

2k damage is sufficient to kill things considerably tougher than raiders in one shot. I have no idea why you could possibly think this statement is true, Likho has never been the tool of choice against raiders at any point. Artillery and shieldballs are good targets (although you have to be a bit more cautious against Felons than in days past).

quote:
you are on a nostalgia trip if you think its still effective outside really niche circumstance

No, I'm remembering several games I played in the last week.

You are fundamentally misinformed.
+3 / -0
were you playing 1v1 or vs noobs? who puts their artillery in front of their porc?

even if the licho survives its out of commission for a good bit repairing unless this is speed metal and you have a spare 1500bp somewhere
+0 / -2
quote:
who puts their artillery in front of their porc?

That's not the right question. The right question is "Who puts their artillery in places where it can be Likho'd?" to which the answer is "plenty of people, including those of high rank on occasion".

Likho always required time and energy to repair. These days it requires a bit more. I think it's still fundamentally a usable unit. The several demonstrably untrue things you have said about Likho lead me to believe that you don't know something I don't and that you are just ill informed about it.
+2 / -0
quote:
That's not the right question. The right question is "Who puts their artillery in places where it can be Likho'd?" to which the answer is "plenty of people, including those of high rank on occasion".


quote:
you are on a nostalgia trip if you think its still effective outside really niche circumstance


lets put it this way, would you rather have a Licho, or 2k metal in any other unit in most situations
just by pure DPS any other unit will do the job better, faster, and more effectively.

and for the price of 2 licho +250m you can even get a catapult + Hercules, now you can snipe that arty, faster, better, and from behind porc.

hell if you see unprotected arty a bunch of glaives can probably do the job just as well as a Licho

[edit]
I am not denying that Licho can do the job of raiders, im just asking is it worth paying for that licho in 99% of the situations you see it in instead of investing it somewhere else?

(mind you this is the STRONGEST AND MOST EXPENSIVE AIRCRAFT IN GAME, if it couldnt do the job of a couple of glaives then we really would need to scrap the air lab ASAP)
+0 / -2

3 months ago
quote:
just by pure DPS

There has never been a point in time at which "pure DPS" was a useful way to assess the utility of bombers.

If anybody else is taking your arguments seriously I can discuss it with them, but I think at this point talking to you is a waste of effort.
+2 / -1
look AUrankAdminAquanim im not trying to say you are wrong, but when you start saying we need to asses this using "special" criteria you start putting doubts in my head to the validity of your claims

i never said that you "can't" be effective with air, i said that air is no longer relevant, that it is ruining the game, that it is a gimmick.

nothing you have said has convinced me otherwise, i don't think even you yourself are convinced air is not a gimmick. As it currently is air is bad for the game. Its not in a state that is playable for the average user, its presence actively ruins games in the worst ways, and I don't think anyone will say otherwise.
+1 / -4
3 months ago
Why would you want to remove air? Have you not tried the glorious strategy of spamming ravens and likhos?
+2 / -0
3 months ago
All jokes aside though, air can be used to good extent in the early game.
+1 / -0
3 months ago
Airplanes can't be under-powered and ruining the game at the same time. Those positions are contradictory.
+3 / -0
3 months ago
and yet every team game there are people screaming at newbies not to build air, that the team has too many air, and that air is useless... that's not a good thing
+0 / -3


3 months ago
We have people screaming at people for not building air, not the other way around. Having too many air is bad because land units should still be the main portion of the army. Air is support that can't win alone, but can definitely pay itself back by taking out high priority targets or forcing enemy to build AA units that can't defend themselves against ground troops.

The reason why people don't want noobs to build air is simply because playing air is not easy. Ass a factory, playing air needs different skill set compared to ground factories. You need to have sense of map control to react to the openings in enemy AA or enemy assaults. A bad air player can also simply act as metal donation if he ends up getting his units killed by enemy AA.
+3 / -0
3 months ago
quote:
We have people screaming at people for not building air, not the other way around. Having too many air is bad because land units should still be the main portion of the army. Air is support that can't win alone, but can definitely pay itself back by taking out high priority targets or forcing enemy to build AA units that can't defend themselves against ground troops.

The reason why people don't want noobs to build air is simply because playing air is not easy. Ass a factory, playing air needs different skill set compared to ground factories. You need to have sense of map control to react to the openings in enemy AA or enemy assaults. A bad air player can also simply act as metal donation if he ends up getting his units killed by enemy AA.


thank you, its great to see we are in perfect agreement as to why the Air lab is bad for the game

+0 / -2
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