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Skittle biff

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I think skittle need biff. Decloak radius is bit too large or it could just jump faster? It cost 550 metalz.
Only player who successfully use them in these days is FRrankSlaab and still with large failure rate.
I know that this discussion was already at least 2 - 3 times. However in some games skittle is only option for jumpers to deal with buildings like Lucifer or Cerberus. On hill maps it become very annoying from some porcers.
And i know that i can use area clokaer to make skittle decloak radius smaller.
Skuttle doesn't have alsmost any advanatge when comparing with ultis. It can't even make limited defence if detected or can't escape even with jump and you need at least 2x to counter heavy unit plus need extreeme precise jump. While ultis can just go near and destroy enemy with one shoot. Ok ultis have alsmot 4x more cost but it mostly neede only one shoot even vs +10k units, it have 8x hp and more lower decloak radius. Only skittle plus is that it can jump but it didn't give any biga advantage as ultis attack is ranged.
Also invisible trollcoms and other clokaed units decloak skittle befere it decloak enemy.
Skittle is great toy to mangle in bigger teams but less tactical weapon.
+11 / -0


3 years ago
Hasn't this been raised a few times already?

Might be better to post in one of the previous threads so we don't retread the same ground.

https://zero-k.info/Forum/Thread/29407
https://zero-k.info/Forum/Thread/27315
+0 / -0
[Spoiler]
+4 / -0
Firepluk
I agree skittle could definitely use a buff, I mean come on this shit decloaks from a mile off, widow is a better choice most of the time when u need single target counter
It's always bad when unit becomes literally useless, right now it's not even a counter in specific cases... Want slow ass heavy demolisher that decloaks a mile off - go make an ulti, a better investment in 99.999% cases
+4 / -0


3 years ago
Simple buff: Make decloak radius tiny when it's not moving. At least then, it can be used as a trap.
+6 / -0

3 years ago
Skuttle as trap is useless. Its unit who have to move and jump on target not sit and wait until some raider steps on it. For trap role is roaches and ticks. Skuttle doesn't have large aoe.
However it anyway would be buff even if small one.
+1 / -0
3 years ago
Yes, maybe the horizontal jump velocity should be higher. I found a speed value of 180 elmos per second on the wiki. How about 220-250? I wish someone also made an official widget for extrapolating enemy movement to alleviate the aiming micro.
+3 / -0
3 years ago
I think Skuttle works well with placeholder against com rush.
-for vision
-and maybe trapping unless recon(?)
+0 / -0
I haven't tried using one or seen one in use in a long time. Thing is, if your enemy does not screen at all, there are better options. Even just a raider rush will repel an unscreened heavy while still being useful for all the other things raiders do. If its a riot type uncreened heavy, skirmishers can handle that. Skuttle is a highly specific counter that is also slow, needs a lot of micro, and has a high failure rate.

I think fast skuttle without cloak might actually work better. At least you will fail fast if you fail, so it won't eat tons of micro.
+1 / -0
3 years ago
yea, maybe skuttle should use cliffs and rocks to hide itself instead of bad cloak. It has jump already to ambush.
+0 / -0
I would like to see Scuttle re-balanced to work good with trappers like placeholders and widows. Instead of being a cloaked bomb, make it a single use assault. No cloak, more speed, more HP. I am thinking 55 elmos so it can catch up to Dante and Funnelweb and a whopping 2500 ( 10x increase) in HP so it can tag them without being destroyed if there is no raider screen.
+1 / -0
I am concerned that Skuttle tends to be no fun. A more powerful Skuttle would be no fun more often. I probably wrote more on the old threads.
+2 / -0

3 years ago
Skuttle is not just for fun. It's one of few option for jumpers to counter heavy units. I dont think that skuttle should be uber buffed but this decloak range is still ridiciously large. Even in time when skuttle wasnt nerfed it wasn't op and there was much failure rates with it.
+0 / -0
Firepluk
3 years ago
How about creating more depth for this unit?

When skittle is stationary make it slowly reduce decloaking range to the range of a widow(or similar)
Reset this range when it starts moving again

This could create some more interesting situations ingame :D
+2 / -0

3 years ago
watching this very thread very closely.
+4 / -0

3 years ago
quote:
I probably wrote more on the old threads.


quote:
watching this very thread very closely.


You know seems AUrankAdminGoogleFrog already starts counter it.
+0 / -0


3 years ago
As AUrankAdminGoogleFrog said in a previous thread:
----------------------------

Skuttle is anti-fun in the sense that there is no player interaction. All other cloaked snipes have more interaction.

When Scythe or Scorpion are revealed the attacker and defender fight over the survival of the units, as they can be reused.
Window requires followup to kill the stunned unit.
With cloaked Snitch the defender can search for the cloaker.
Many Phantoms are required to 1-shot a large unit, and the defender can search for the Phantoms.


After a successful Skuttle strike the attacker rarely needs to provide provide followup, and there are no units for the defender to kill as a consolation prize. The defender should put out a screen, but against Jump they probably should have been screening before the strike. In theory, the only change to the game is that some of the defenders units died and they know that the attacker spent 550 metal on a Skuttle.

Currently, Skuttle is fairly difficult to use so it is rarely seen and degree of respect is given to a successful strike. A better Skuttle would be seen more often, which looks bad with its current design. The first step towards buffing Skuttle should be to make it more interactive.

AUrankAdminSaktoth had the idea of giving Skuttle fire damage. The intention was that you lose your heavy unit unless it is sent to retreat and repair. This still lacks counterplay, although there is more as the attacker has effectively attracted constructors to the affected structure/unit, and can take advantage of that. The main issue with this idea is that fire is frustrating and constrained. Burning currently deals the same DPS across all sources of ignition and I would like to maintain this rule. Dealing 8000 fire damage at the current rate would take 9 minutes.
+0 / -0
I'll rewrite what I am pretty sure I have written before.

Skuttle is one of the least interactive units. As a cloaked unit there is little player interaction until it reveals. As a bomb the interaction tends to end when it is revealed. Other bombs have more of an element of placement, prediction, and maneuvering your opponent to step on it. Other cloaked units (including the Iris that is hosting Snitches) start a game of "chase down the cloaked unit" after they are revealed.

Eos and Lihko, two units that do similar things to Skuttle, as much more interactive because the Missile Silo and Lihko are ongoing threats. They are targets to be defended against or possibly attacked and killed. All Skuttle does is tell you that your opponent has a Jumpbot factory, which you likely knew already and is most likely safely out of reach.

Imp and Widow are more interesting because they start a game of "protect the stunned stuff" and also require coordination with followup.

If Skuttle is common then people will make a bit of chaff to protect their big structures when they see Jumpbots. There is some counterplay here, but the results are very much all-or-nothing.

I'm waiting for a fun idea that has a chance of making Skuttle a more fun part of the game, not merely something that will make it more common.

quote:
When skittle is stationary make it slowly reduce decloaking range to the range of a widow(or similar)
Reset this range when it starts moving again
This is an interesting idea and could be done just for fun.

In terms of interaction there have been heavy damage-over-time ideas. Make the unit die but give it some time to do something. Alternately there is the idea of a Skuttle that can be fought off.

Edit: Sniped.
+0 / -0


3 years ago
My idea for Skuttle:
1.) Cloak is removed and replaced with ability to burrow like the rest of the burrowing mines.
2.) Jump range is reduced, but the jump speed is made faster. Optionally Skuttle could have attack similar to Puppy where it turns itself into projectile that deals damage/explodes (only?) when hitting enemy. This would remove things like Felon insta killing SKuttle trying to jump on them.
3.)[optional]: The jump cooldown could be lowered, as I doubt it would break skuttle if it was able to jump more often, especially if the jump range is reduced.
+0 / -0

3 years ago
AUrankAdminGoogleFrog what is unfun about getting rid of Skuttle's stealth and giving it enough health to do the job of taking out a heavy unit in a one time only assault?
+0 / -0
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