How scorcher feels these days. Glaive (not to mention bandit, duck and dagger) completely make a joke out of it. I'm really not happy with the unit.

It's gimmick of doing damage when it's close up means it has to get INTO the ball of glaives in order to be remotely effective because I can't retreat micro scorchers across the whole map which is what raiderspam-K requires.

What is rovers meant to do here?

Even on rover maps, the raiders I mention can make a joke out of scorcher/rovers if the opposing player plates up like you do. Building ripper is a kiss of death because you lose all mobility.

Answer honestly what rovers can do against raider monospam, besides, not be rovers on the map?

Starting to think that Pyro swapping weapons with Scorcher would be an interesting and fitting change that may begin to solve issues surrounding both units - since Pyro enjoys jumping into close quarters, and scorcher clearly doesn't enjoy existing in that mandatory state.

Is that keeping in mind that cost-for-cost glaives beat fencers? So I'm forcing you to win an engagement, you mean?

Yes, the aiming thing and difficulty shooting small targets is one issue aside the damage at distance one.

Aiming speed can't be the full deal here if a single glaive at max range is situationally capable of killing a scorcher. I've made it happen before.

That's without taking into account the granularity, hill climbing and regen of the glaives - further advantages it has over scorcher.

quote: Aiming speed can't be the full deal here if a single glaive at max range is situationally capable of killing a scorcher. I've made it happen before.

Yes - but i feel like it significantly impacts Scorcher performance when fighting cost-equivalent amounts of glaives in what should be their dream condition, nearly point-blank. So you suffer at medium range, you suffer at max range, and you don't get much to show for when you get to close range either.

You didn't use Fencers this game. Fencers are obviously outmaneuvered by Glaives.
Glaives have the micro advantage against Scorcher retreat micro as they turn faster and can choose to disengage.
Fencer pushing only works if you can apply pressure with the Fencers without being severely outmaneuvered, and on a map like this, the Fencers will be severely outmaneuvered.
I think Fencer pushing in combination with Scorchers work much better on a map like Titan Duel.

Better turret turn rate makes sense for Scorcher if they have trouble with it, since they want to melee some things.

I'd argue that reaver being cheap, quick and effective as it is, it is not the mobility lose-condition that fielding a ripper is. And as you put it, imp is game swingingly good. Furthermore, rovers have an extremely difficult time (see: Mandatory factory switch) once a few knights exist.

Really hard to give any sympathy to cloakbots in this matchup, especially being that no one has said to make scorcher TOO good. How about just good enough?

Meanwhile, dart sometimes misses and takes forever to aim too. Is that an oversight or intended?

Anarchid yes, that`s why I said EARLY GAME.

Knight works well, but is expensive and very very slow.

Just to make this clear, rover and cloaky are my favourite factories and i think rover is overall a bit on the weaker side.
I am less concerned with the raider-matchup between those 2, where I agree with RyMarq. Plus I am torn on that issue as I will explain later.

Dregs are you interested in some exhibition-matches to generate more specific data? Because my personal expierience is the opposite of yours: Everytime I go in with glaives into scorchers i get wrecked. Maybe it`s my micro. This encounter is the only one where I set glaives to fight-move so they keep their distance. I was never able to make cost otherwise. If i am on the rover-side, I would make fencers and maybe 1 domi for the inevitable knight to show up...

As said, i am open to change my opinion. I would suggest a bunch of games on even, meaning flat ground. If you wreck my scorchers point-blank with glaives reliably i will give in without hesitation. Still, there are other things to consider as well:

Where I definitely agree with you is that bandits, ducks and daggers are REALLY bad for scorchers to fight, especially bandits. But since Fencer exists, I am not sure if it is a good idea to make scorcher better against raiders.
Scorcher has incredible wrecking-potential. It was my first favourite unit. It would also be more consistent with rovers as blitzkrieg-factory if you could rely more on offensive scorcher-use instead of defensive fencer-pushing. On the other hand, rover has acces to ravager as another kind of raider. This is a very complex topic and i need a bit more time to think things through.
My main reason why i think this game is a bit bad as an example is that the map has this valley in the middle, which should logically be beneficial to bots and a hindrance for vehicles and hovers. So I think it`s not a good basis to argue about the matchup.

As said, give me some time and play some evaluation-games on Alien Desert or so. If you can get Godde or a comparable opponent for those it would be even better. ATM I don`t have the energy to do it unfortunately, as covid might just take another relative of mine away, so my mind is somewhere else and I don`t expect to perform well for some days. In fact, i barely have the motivation and energy to write this here and make my points more consistant.
So please, all i can ask for is for you to take my thoughts into consideration. :)