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Amphbots completely broken

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USrankRiposteR
2 years ago
There is no way for amphbots to counter ronin for cost, so they cannot be cloaky in an even matchup!
+0 / -0

AUrankAdminAquanim
2 years ago
I would expect some combination of Buoy, Limpet, Bulkhead and Grizzly to get the job done. Replays?
+2 / -0
DErankBrackman
2 years ago
Ronins cannot hit Ducks. Ducks can just dodge everything.
+1 / -0

AUrankAdminAquanim
2 years ago
(edited 2 years ago)
A single Duck probably beats a single Ronin in a vacuum but when both units are present in large numbers I have generally found Duck to be too large and slow to be a reliable counter to Ronin. Ronin certainly has quite a bit of time where it can kite Duck back into the Ronin player's defences without taking much fire from the Ducks.

edit: The Amph/Cloak matchup looks pretty even in high rating games in recent months according to zkstats so presumably somebody has an answer to this question, even if we have not arrived at it in this thread yet. Possibly Amph is being carried by good matchups on Jurassic Sands and Dune Patrol, although I would expect that if Amph really just has no answer to Ronin then it would be hard to win on Dune Patrol.
+1 / -0


GBrankPRO_Dregs
2 years ago
I get trashed by GBrankPRO_rANDY's amphbots when I'm cloak - maybe I'm not using enough ronin myself!

That said, to counter ronin the premium tool is Limpets in the early game and as AUrankAdminAquanim mentions Grizzly. You can play an attrition game with the cloakbot user that their slings/phantoms don't solve, because they open themself up to easy amphbot countering via MORE limpets and duck.

If amphbots are broken, it's because they're a little too powerful right now - only slightly in the shadow of badgerspam. I played a number of hover vs amph games in recent times and came to the sad conclusion that hover have an extremely unfavourable escalation pathway against amph. Duck/Archer completely shuts down their raiding, Bouy their skirmisher and riots, and grizzly seals the deal. If they make lances, you can quite easily duckspam or lob your grizzly a single time. Limpets trivialize bolas too.

The bulkhead nerf was good, I think scallop deserves to become relevant again but bouy might need to be toned back down.
+0 / -0
FIrankFine
2 years ago
(edited 2 years ago)
Lobster/Limpet/X is also a terrifying combination.

When will duck have to answer for its alpha-tax evasion?
+0 / -0


GBrankPRO_Dregs
2 years ago
Just to further add to the claim that amph are doing too well, if you mess around with the stats to get high elo games, take a look at the row of colour for amph, and take a look at the row of colour for hover.

It demonstrates that amph has favourable matchups apart from rover (due to badger) and especially AGAINST hover.
It also demonstrates that hover are really suffering right now.

This is unusual because not long ago, hover were S tier. I don't suspect that they have gotten weaker more that their opposing factories have caught up in terms of power/meta creep and simply outclass hover now.
+0 / -0
USrankDave[tB]
2 years ago
(edited 2 years ago)
quote:
Replays?


Presumably, based on his postgame comments, here are two of them:

http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1188101

http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1170306

Maybe the unfairness comment comes because both games I win with less map control, but that's kind of my schtick sometimes lately. In mass Ronins dick on mass duck, archer and buoy because they are slow and easy to hit, but what has been done to me before and I've afraid of is lobbed limpet/archer. In the Altair game, this would have been especially potent against the mass slings that I had pretty well clumped.

I think this is kind of funny, because amph is considered the most dominant factory and ronin for awhile a lot of people made statements that ronin was useless.
+2 / -0