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MM WHR Crashes

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It seems that every few days everyone's "Current Rating" on the MM ladder drops 150+ points. This seems to be correlated with server restarts.

I've had the pleasure of losing ~50 ladder rating to rANDY(being ranked #1 or #2 with me ~#10) because my current rating was suddenly 200 points lower than my ladder rating. I've also basically not gained rating after beating someone in the top 5.

What is going on with server restarts that is breaking ratings? Also it would be nice if ladder rating loss/gain was calculated only based on the predict %, and not the 30 day average or attempting to converge to current rating.
+2 / -0
The crashes aside, it has to try to converge to current rating or you couldn't be able to move much. My ladder rating is 1000 points down in Casual and it's still a grind. I gain 30 a win and lose 10 a loss (depending ofc). So assuming the 50/50 win rate I need 100 more games to get the ratings somewhat close, and that's with me at +1000 pressure. If it was just based off predict I would be forever stuck due to likely averaging a 50/50 win rate/predict rate because I am matching at 2700 but laddered at 1700.
+0 / -0
Converging isn't bound to the 0-50 range. Win 5 games and I guess you get to 0.9*current_rating because it uses the last X days WHR as reference.

Code is bugged. Add some logging to wtf it's doing on a restart. Like only 1 cycle because casual has already run? Or just multiple sad cycles.
+0 / -0
Reminder that this is still happening:


Source: rating statistics page for AUrankAdminGoogleFrog.

There was server downtime today, and now everyone's current rating is 100-200 points lower than it was prior -- as a result, playing MM within the next 24+ hours is very likely to adversely effect ones position on the ladder.
+0 / -0


3 days ago
I think there were 2 in short succession Dave, as it happened a couple of days ago too. So this is a double hit, and now I really don't want to risk losing by playing much at all :P
+1 / -0
My question is, where is the developer/admin response on this 20 day old thread? If you make a thread criticizing moderation you get an admin on your post in 10 seconds, yet here you don't even get a response, lul.
+1 / -2

3 days ago
I want to see the manager!
+1 / -0


3 days ago
PLrankLightzerve : Any mod can probably opine on moderation issues, those who are comfortable with server<->rating interactions are very few and may actually now be the empty set.
+0 / -1
quote:
My question is, where is the developer/admin response on this 20 day old thread? If you make a thread criticizing moderation you get an admin on your post in 10 seconds, yet here you don't even get a response, lul.

You are mixing up "developer" and "moderator" here. They are not the same job at all.

--

WHR and the ladder-rating system bolted on top of it to provide an interface more pleasant for human emotions is a complicated mess and, as far as I know, is easy to break with ill-informed meddling (if only because it is difficult to fully test a change before pushing it to the live server).

This leaves us with two facts:

* CHrankAdminDeinFreund and maybe CZrankAdminLicho are the only (infra)devs who, as far as I know, consider themselves competent to meddle with the rating system
* Those two developers don't have much time at the moment

and until one of those facts changes this probably isn't getting fixed and there isn't much useful for me to say about it.

If somebody makes an ticket at https://github.com/ZeroK-RTS/Zero-K-Infrastructure/issues maybe it will make it onto Licho's todo list.

Alternatively I suppose the coredevs may just make the decision to pull the plug entirely on the ladder-rating interface, or even WHR entirely, if it is decided to be more trouble than it is worth.
+0 / -0
2 days ago
quote:
if it is decided to be more trouble than it is worth.
As someone who thinks current system is much better than hiding everything (as it was before), I will definitely complain if the plug is pulled. While there are some people complaining now, there are ~1600 players on the ladder so my guess is that overall few complain. Would be interesting to know how many people access the web page with the ladder, to have a more objective evaluation of how many of the actual users are complainers.
+1 / -0
2 days ago
It's been ~22 hours since the server restart yesterday. The ratings still haven't completely recovered, with current ratings all being ~50 less than ladder ratings.

As far as I know, no one noticed that this was happening until this spring. Did server restarts become more common at that time, or did some change that Licho or someone else did cause this error?

I don't understand why the ladder would be removed. The reason I'm making some paltry attempts to track this is because I want a functioning MM ladder. I don't want to have to check when the last server reset happened to decide if it makes sense to play games.
+4 / -0

2 days ago
I am not saying that the ladder is liable to be removed entirely. I could however imagine the "ladder rating" being replaced with just using the raw WHR rating for everything, or WHR being replaced with something that is easier to maintain.
+0 / -0