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Zero-K v1.11.1.0 - Extra Gridding

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17 days ago

This patch has an engine update, some superweapon tweaks, and extra gridding. Strider Hub now requires 50 grid energy. This is targeted at rushes in big team games, as every other use of Strider Hub should not have trouble finding 50 energy. The engine update changes how graphics states are handled over multiple games, which should improve load times and performance.

Bertha now requires a grid connection and is a bit better at knocking down walls. Grid for Bertha has been frequently requested for a long time, probably for thematic reasons, as finding 50 energy seems easy for most Berthas. Zenith had a large buff to knocking down walls just over a year ago, which turned out to be too much, so is slightly worse at it. Starlight aims slightly slower to give defenders a little more time.

Balance



Strider Hub requires grid to place striders and to spend resources.
  • Requires 50 grid energy to function.

Big Bertha requires grid and is better at knocking down walls.
  • Requires 50 grid energy to function.
  • Smooth radius 96 -> 120
  • Smooth effect increased 40% -> 50% (matches Zenith)
  • Structure smoothing multiplier 0% -> 25%

Zenith is worse at knocking down walls.
  • Smooth radius 140 -> 120
  • Structure smoothing multiplier 100% -> 50%

Starlight has reduced aim speed to enable a bit more counterplay, and because slow means epic.
  • Pitch rate 1.2 -> 0.75 deg/s (37.5% nerf)
  • Yaw rate 3.5 -> 2.5 deg/s (28.5% nerf)

High Density Plating was erroneously applying its improved form to all chassis.
  • Health for Strike, Recon, Engineer 2000 -> 1600

Features


  • Added the lobby option 'Equalize team commanders' under 'Start' to balance uneven custom games.
  • Improved performance and load times.
  • Added GameID to game rules params (widgets can read it).

Fixes


  • Fixed wrecks dropped by jumping units snapping to the ground.
  • Fixed commander experience not being updated correctly when upgrading.
  • Fixed water visuals on some maps (water was a bit too opaque).
  • Energy content no longer effects reclaim highlight colour (for mixed resource map features).
  • Ctrl-Click auto morph for structures is now disabled by Shift.
  • Fixed blast radius indicator for EMP blasts (Imp).
  • Improved the sun on Delta Siege Dry Deluxe V3.
+12 / -0
16 days ago
My first impression of this update is that it only takes and doesnt give.

", and because slow means epic." - then make it epic! (ex: double beam size, more anti terrain dmg or fire damage there are many options)

Zenith already has the reputation of being the worst super and now another nerf? Leaves me with expectations for a buff in the near future.

BB only 50 grid? Souldnt it be somewhere between the 50 of big defence and 400-ish of supers?
+0 / -0
The update
"Ctrl-Click auto morph for structures is now disabled by Shift."
is bad if you want to place 4 shields to add them to your mobile force... :(

If the intention is to disable it for placing shields around a center unit, then it's ok to me if I can place them with ctrl+alt+shift in a 2x2 box or larger.
+2 / -0
I second having regularly used Ctrl+Shift to queue multiple Aegises to be morphed immediately.
+0 / -0

16 days ago
Bertha is too strong now. Terraform was the only way to defend yourself from it.
If it was a unit that was mostly restricted to 1v1 I would understand it, but in team-games, being shot by a bertha while you have to defend against mobile forces as well is pretty harsh. A wall in front of you comes with a lot of negatives for yourself.
If you buff a long-range weapon like that, you need to give single players an option to counter it. A grid-requirement to balance things out is nice, but not in any way interactive. If one gets shot by a bertha now, one only has the option to leave. I don`t think that is desirable.
+5 / -0
Fully agree with katastrophe. Getting whittled down by BBs with no way to counter them while trying to carry a front is extremely unfun. What was the idea behind buffing them?

(Not sure they're actually OP; e.g. a team of 5 ppl expanding will probably win vs 4 equally skilled ppl expanding and 1 rushing BB, but if their 4 ppl happen to equal/best your 5, the extra BB is a miserable way to lose compared to just losing to 5 ppl in battle).

Appreciate the slight superweapon nerfs.
+0 / -0
16 days ago
Well bear in mind that it costs 6k metal, that is the same as 2 scorpions. And 2 scorpions can do a lot of damage. I am ok with this buff if you take into account how expensive bertha is.
+0 / -0

16 days ago
quote:
Terraform was the only way to defend yourself from it.

Not really true. As far as I know, a few shields can keep up pretty well. Of course, once they get several BBs, then you are in trouble, but if they really have the time and money for that then I am sure you have enough resources to counter their BBs easily, and if you don't then you are already losing terribly. There are a few things that can counter BBs, and if the BB is up front more, than there are even more. Yes, the energy grid thing doesn't influence the later game much, but it does create some interesting situations where you can just bomb/get rid of their energy or energy grids, and the BB will stop working.
+1 / -0
16 days ago
you need 5 shields and 2 fus to stop a Bertha, so if enemy makes Bertha and you make shield you will win in the long run
+1 / -0
Yes, so in a teamgame only 1 player has to build 5 shields? And then goes around to shield everyone else?
Also, you need energy to charge, meaning Bertha firing at shields makes cost in energy not going to overdrive. Sure, Bertha now also needs energy, but it does not constantly drain it. This is what I meant when I said it seems okay if one looks at 1v1.

Also:

- good luck building 5 aspis while your factory is under bertha-fire.

- good luck CHARGING them first.

Anyway, this is more an overall design-decision. It makes mobile units less desirable. It makes shielded pork and with it silo more desirable. Holding front with units is already stressful and an ungrateful job.
+2 / -0
my man, when you chose to make aspis COMIT! shield everything, let no single friendly unit die! you are the wall that guards your teams fragile heart.

also for the price of one Bertha you can make 3 fus and 6 aspis
+0 / -0
I'd also like to point out that hopefully (and usually) you know that a bertha is being built well before it is actually finished, so you have time to defend yourself. Also, BB takes an enormous amount of time to change targets and turn.
Oh and another thing: Terraforming walls in front of everything is much harder, much more annoying, and much more expensive than making some shields.
+0 / -0
quote:
my man, when you chose to make aspis COMIT! shield everything, let no single friendly unit die! you are the wall that guards your teams fragile heart.


I want to see you live up to your expectations...

quote:
also for the price of one Bertha you can make 3 fus and 6 aspis


Nice. So, next time you are on my team and we have that situation, I am just going to do this. We will see how long the front lasts.

We can have further discussions if you read my posts thorougly by the way. By your logic, a superweapon is really easy to counter: make the same cost in glaives. Surely 692 glaives are going to win.

quote:
I'd also like to point out that hopefully (and usually) you know that a bertha is being built well before it is actually finished, so you have time to defend yourself. Also, BB takes an enormous amount of time to change targets and turn.

Yes, that is correct. But, from my expierience, there is no time to prepare yourself if you actually fight on front, because fighting front is usually not fighting angainst noone.


quote:
Oh and another thing: Terraforming walls in front of everything is much harder, much more annoying, and much more expensive than making some shields.

Terraform is cheaper than you think. Its also a lot faster than making 2 fus and 5 aspis. The bertha-player only needs to find one spot in the enemy-lines that does not have the ressources to build it because they fight other people. There is a reason you see the "make units" label more often than "make defenses".
+1 / -0
quote:
I want to see you live up to your expectations...

DErankkatastrophe, well you are living up to your name... Im the worst person in ZK to tell that too.

i apologise in advance AUrankAdminGoogleFrog, blame DErankkatastrophe for all the report It's his fault!

ITS SHIELD META BOYS!

battles
http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1546548
http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1546528
http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1546507
http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1546570
http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1546584
http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1546601

so far 3:2 win rate, but now other people are doing it!
the mind plague has begun!
+1 / -2
AWESOME PATCH GF !

THANKS MAN....

PALA ROOOOSH STILL VIABLE ON ISIS !

https://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1546378

CAN WE JUST NERF BAN ISIS ?!??!!??!
+0 / -0
GBrankddaboqepp

What about:

http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1546601
http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1546584
http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/1546507

Win = its you
Loss = its the others

Sure.

Anyway, someone else with better arguments?
+0 / -1
haven't added them in, i don't update it every 2 seconds...

also 1546584 is in there, im not afraid to loose... so is 1546507, actually your above post makes no sense...
+1 / -0



16 days ago
The aim wasn't to make Bertha particularly good at destroying walls, or Zenith particularly bad. I just noticed that it didn't take many meteors (maybe 80?) to completely flatten any practical wall, and that Bertha could be blocked for minutes by even a relatively cheap wall. This seemed a bit extreme, so I toned it down.
+2 / -0

15 days ago
quote:
PALA ROOOOSH STILL VIABLE ON ISIS !

I think it's fine if pala rush is still viable on a few maps, I think the point was to prevent it from being mandatory on quite a few small maps.

quote:
But, from my expierience, there is no time to prepare yourself if you actually fight on front, because fighting front is usually not fighting angainst noone.

quote:
Terraform is cheaper than you think. Its also a lot faster than making 2 fus and 5 aspis.

Yes, this is true. I only mentioned shields because you said that terraform was the only way to defend yourself from BB. There are now more ways to disable/kill BB now as well.
+0 / -0
I meant "the only realistic way a frontline-player in a big teamgame can deal with bertha-fire." If you give me enough income, I can make silo, striders etc... But you usually dont have that in lobpots. And the only way getting it usually is reclaim, which is also made less desirable under bertha-fire, because my builders are less likely to make cost in reclaim.
+1 / -0
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