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My daughter spilled liquid on my laptop.

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56 days ago
Recently I bought cables for ps4 controllers I connected to a raspberry pi, since the my children were complaining about lag. That works, except one of my children failed to jump over the cable, knocking it out of my wife’s hands into a cup of tea. The tea fell all over the laptop I was using. Now the laptop is unresponsive. Maybe it needs to dry.

I need a new one anyway, it is currently unsupported anyway. I may be in the market for a new laptop. I was hoping to put it off.

What recommendation do you have for a new laptop? My main requirement is that It must run zero-k well in Linux.
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56 days ago
I went with the Asus Vivobook X1500EA.
16gb ram, decent cpu, good webcam, all that matters really. Not sure how well it runs ZK. You can probably find something cheaper with similar specs if you look
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56 days ago
ZK is all about the CPU core, its peak clock, and I suspect to some extent the processor cache (L2/L3). With a bit of GPU on the side. Anyone around here playing with modern integrated GPUs (an "iGPU") from Intel or AMD?

I suspect that most laptops would do well, really, but if you want some margin, the best deals are going to be modest gamer laptops.
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You can spend anywhere from a few $100 to a few $1000 on a laptop, so that makes a big difference.

Personally I have a soft-spot for AMD-based laptops. They have better power efficiency and better bang for buck with integrated graphics, and also have a proper bundled GPU driver on Linux (although, it's not necessarily as good quality as Nvidia, YMMV).

NOTE: I'm NOT running on Linux currently, I've found in general it's just that little bit too much extra hassle on laptops. I can recommend WSL if you can deal with Windows/Linux mix.

I switched to my internal GPU, AMD 780M, and did a couple of tests running a 10v10 replay. Figures from the start of the game, so they will only get worse.

- 1080p resolution, high settings - 20fps
- 1080p resolution, medium settings - 45fps
- 1080p resolution, low settings - 100fps
- 4K resolution, high settings - 10fps

If it's in your range, something like https://www.dell.com/en-uk/shop/laptops-2-in-1-pcs/new-inspiron-16-laptop/spd/inspiron-16-5645-laptop/cn56403sc might be alright. £700 here in the UK for an AMD 8840U, I'm confident it has enough in the CPU: I have 7940HS, which is a little faster than the 8840U, but as you see it can push 100fps at least. For the iGPU the 8840U packs a 760M which I believe is about 2/3 of the 780M, so you talking about peaking at 30fps with 1080p/medium and it will drop off as the amount onscreen increases. You might find you have to reduce the resolution and/or graphics settings from that to sustain a decent frame rate.

If you want to push 4K at high settings then you're talking about needing a top-end Nvidia mobile GPU - interestingly this does seem to have improved recently, it seems in 4K/high I can stay comfortably above 30fps on a 4070, whereas it used to be sketchier.
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56 days ago
Interesting to hear the AMD iGPU scores. Intel must be lower than that. AMD does certainly beat Intel on any test of efficiency these days, and likely on the iGPU scores too.

I favor thick laptops because mobility isn't a huge deal for me. We have a new-ish gamer laptop with an i5-12500H and GF-3060, plays ZK very well at 1920x1200, I haven't taken any measurements, but it withstands perhaps anything the lobpot can throw at it. That one runs Windows.

I also have a couple of older but beefy Thinkpads that run Linux and ZK with the nVidia binary driver. I think those machines work as good in Linux as Windows.
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linux/steam

dell precision 5570

Model name: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-10875H CPU @ 2.30GHz
CPU MHz: 2300.000
CPU max MHz: 5100,0000 <= maxspeed is what you want

nvidia Quadro T1000 GPU

120 FPS / 1080p on low setting
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54 days ago
Partially related: I had someone spill a full glass of water over my Dell XPS 15 and amazingly it (mostly) survived! The only thing that did not survive was the graphics card (Nvidia - if I try to use it computer hangs). Same person did same trick with a Mac (her own this time) and the Mac was completely dead. So I can definitely recommend Dell if glasses of water are a constant danger.

When will purchase next laptop I will definitely consider https://frame.work as I like the concept of "modularity" they offer (and now they also have GPUs). Only downside is that it is not an Nvidia GPU.
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to expand on what Malric said...
you should definitely avoid Apple laptops. They are notoriously hard to repair and are some of the most fragile laptops ever produced. Only incentive for buying one is the M1/2/3 processors, but newer Intel laptop cpus have them beat in almost every category for a much cheaper price (not that it's really relevant for laptops as long as the cpu is reasonable). I recommend against getting laptops with dedicated GPUs especially for Linux. And to be honest, Zero-K doesn't really need it.

Nowadays both AMD and Intel iGPUs are similar in performance, AMD used to be a lot better but now it's not really worth comparing.
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quote:
Nowadays both AMD and Intel iGPUs are similar in performance, AMD used to be a lot better but now it's not really worth comparing.


Wrong.
https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/gpus/amds-radeon-780m-integrated-graphics-get-close-to-gtx-1650-in-geekbench-6-ryzen-7-8700g-igpu-benchmark-leaked

> Benchleaks (on X) has unveiled set of Geekbench 6 Vulkan and OpenCL benchmarks showing the performance of AMD's upcoming Ryzen 7 8700G featuring AMD's flagship RDNA 3 iGPU, the Radeon 780M. The 8700G outperformed its mid-range counterpart, the 8600G (whose Geekbench 6 results leaked yesterday), with results approaching those of Nvidia's GTX 1650.

Basically AMD iGPUs have become on-par with dedicated (!) Nvidia GPUs (even if 5 years old).

quote:
but newer Intel laptop cpus have them beat in almost every category for a much cheaper price

Also wrong.

Intel CPUs will never be able to stay on for up to a few days without charging. The Apple M-series products are simply the best option when it comes performance-per-watt efficiency, which is a very important metric for laptops as they are supposed to be portable. Also I don't know how you compare pricing here as well since the M-series CPUs cannot be bought separately.

However, I have no idea if ZK or Spring/Recoil engine has any native support for ARM.
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54 days ago
quote:
Wrong.
The provided link does not discuss at all any of the Intel GPU-s. It might be the case that the AMD ones are better (would make sense Intel was not great at this domain), but if you compare AMD with 5 years old Nvidia you cannot conclude automatically that they are better than current day Intel iGPU...

quote:
However, I have no idea if ZK or Spring/Recoil engine has any native support for ARM.
As far as I know, it does not. It does not have support for Mac OS either (although people have tried).

I had ATI (bought at some point by AMD) >10 years ago. I would still avoid it for the same price if performance is not worse than 50% because of the headaches I had with the driver. No matter how well the benchmark and price look I care also about actually using it.
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I prefer AMD over Intel simply because of the history if Intel processors - how they stopped innovating the design once their only rival was behind. I would prefer even AMD graphics cards, but if you want to run some machine learning model on your GPU, you really need an nVidia graphics card, sadly.
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54 days ago
quote:
Intel CPUs will never be able to stay on for up to a few days without charging. The Apple M-series products are simply the best option when it comes performance-per-watt efficiency, which is a very important metric for laptops as they are supposed to be portable.

Speak for yourself. I don't look for more than about 6 hours of battery life. I buy thick laptops (gamer or workstation) and don't care much about top performance per watt because I have a lot of watts.

Such a laptop runs ZK without approaching any thermal limit, I recommend it.
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54 days ago
quote:
I prefer AMD over Intel simply because of the history if Intel processors - how they stopped innovating the design once their only rival was behind.
There were various innovations attempted but failed. In the end I don't feel I need faster CPU, mine is 7 years old and works fine. So I feel very neutral to AMD/Intel regarding their processors. GPU-s are another story (Intel probably is very bad, AMD I hate because of drivers issues, Nvidia never had an issue not even in Linux)
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53 days ago
The story with GPU drivers is clouded on Linux depending on how you feel about open source:

- For AMD the open source amdgpu driver is part of the kernel so it's less hassle, and should just work out of the box
- For nVidia there is an (or two?) open source driver which isn't so good, significantly worse than amdgpu in performance, features and stability
- For nVidia there is also a closed source driver which is the best quality Linux driver out there, but it's closed source with all that comes with that
- I'm not sure how Intel's driver is these days but when I used it in the past I'd rate it like amdgpu (i.e. pretty good, not the best)

Because of the above you may feel like AMD (or Intel) have done more for the open source community, whereas nVidia don't appear to have contributed quite as much.

I think it's true that Intel iGPU is much closer to AMD iGPU these days. Indeed, it looks like the very best ones now trade blows with AMD: https://www.anandtech.com/show/21282/intel-core-ultra-7-115h-review-meteor-lake-makes-makes-fresh-start-to-mobile-cpus/8
Even then I think the AMD iGPU comes out on top more often than not, and bear in mind that's a brand new Intel iGPU.

Personally, if you're going with iGPU I think AMD is the better choice - the drivers are good enough and frame rate matters. If you want a discreet GPU then I'd take nVidia, and the CPU choice doesn't matter so much.

USrankAmnykon - would be great to hear an idea of budget!

P.S. There's no Apple silicon native build of Spring/ZK. Whilst that's some amazing tech, and AMD/Intel have been left in the dust a bit for performance/efficiency, that ecosystem is fairly toxic to PC gaming. You can basically forget Steam. I really wanted to buy a Mac for my last laptop, but that put it out of the picture for me.
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53 days ago
quote:
on how you feel about open source
I think it is good that there are people completely devoted to the idea of open source, but I am not one of them. While I will select - despite some inconveniences - mostly open source, my impression of the ATI (back then) drivers on Windows was terrible, so risk of using them was too big. Even in the last 10 years, there seem to been more reports/hacks for AMD/ATI (there is even an AMD/ATI hack options in game settings).

For iGPU I think AMD might be the smarter option at this point, Intel was generally lackluster for GPUs, but hey maybe someone is also happy with Intel iGPU - please share...
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53 days ago
To be fair the closed source nVidia driver isn't just a philosophical thing. It's slightly fiddlier to install and keep up to date - but that's not really a problem either.

I think there's no question that nVidia's driver has fewer problems on both Linux and Windows, but I'd say AMD is "good enough" these days, even for ZK.
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