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Zero-K v1.1.2.0
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Forget the new engine version, we're going in! New graphics, some long-awaited balance changes, and even a funky new GUI skin await in this February's stable. == Graphics == * New models for Crane, Rapier, Valkyrie and Vindicator by Exit_Wound * New EMP missile trails * New slowbeam, Halberd & Buoy impact FX * Add flashing effect when a unit is resurrected * Fixed Dominatrix beam position * Fixed Detriment triple gun animation * Fixed normals on amphibs and some jumpbots == Units == Annihilator: * Cost 1500 -> 1800 * Reload time 8s -> 10s DDM: * Main cannon range 700 -> 650 Phoenix * No longer deforms ground Starlight * Fixed divergence between continuous and pulse beams at long range Firefly (companion drone): * Health 160 -> 200 Newtons are less effective against gunships. Valkyrie accelerates and ascends/descends much faster (general buff, nerfs transport launchers). All aircraft can be ordered to manually land at airpads, not just bombers. Anti-air missiles can be fired at much higher targets depending on the missile's flight time. Sumo: * Jump reload time 18s -> 15s Disco Rave Party: * Yellow shot damage 0 -> 800 Wreckages for Flea and Gnat. Now all non-suicidal units (not Claw, Tick, Roach, Blastwing, Puppy, Skuttle) should have wreckages. Fixed some impulse values for weapons (in particular, this includes a buff for Leveler, commander Riot Cannon and Concussion Shell, Disco Rave Party and Zenith). == Commanders == Singleplayer (non-modular) comms can morph to higher levels. Hellfire Grenade: * Reload time 16s -> 12s High Power Servos: * Speed bonus 10% -> 15% == Interface == * Keybinds are now saved to LuaUI/Configs/zk_keys.lua, rather than being hidden in LuaUI/Configs * Resorted many menu options to make the menu less cluttered. As a side effect, some options may be reset. * New GUI skin: Twilight * Any unit's description window can be accessed through Help -> Unit Descriptions * Binding a key to a unit command also binds Shift+key, if it was not part of the original keyset * Camera mode selection uses radio buttons * Construction priority has a floating icon (when Shift is held) * Added option for selection window background color * Fixed cursor transparency under certain hardware settings * Fixed clickable areas on chat * Fixed negative healthbars * Auto Reclaim/Heal/Assist is now under Units category in list == CAI == * CAI checks for enemies near mex spots before attempting to mex * Constructors with jumpjets will use them to escape enemies == Chicken == * Speed mode is now a modoption * New chicken defense, the Rafflesia static shield == Missions == * Persistent messages are stored in history; look better in non-default skins == Misc. == * Advanced (COFC) camera handles more smoothly and reliably; resets state with just Ctrl+Alt+middleclick (previously Shift was needed as well) * Widget settings are backed up at each run |
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Hooray, it's finally out. I've been watching the SVN changes with great interest after seeing the gunship models change, especially since this means the Crane no longer as the ARM logo on it (i.e. one less justification for a valid C&D). Also, hooray that Phoenix no longer deforms ground. I know my tournament match vs.    [ffc]Killer was cited in the change discussion as one of the reasons for the change (though I'm sure not the only or main reason), but I'm glad that was changed.
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Great changes! But you still overlooked one typo when you were changing the speeds of the Valyrie. It still has speed 10.7 :S |
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Just had a look at the new gunships. We'll get used to them over time :-) When you put the new gunships next the old ones they use a different grey-ish color for most of the model. The old ones are slightly darker, and the black is slightly greyer. Imo it would be nice to have them more uniform with their colors. |
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I really like the new gunship models, I think they fit nicely with the Gnat, Blackdawn and Krow, though now the Banshee is the odd design out (though I do like it). I also really like the settings rearrangement. Interface was utterly bloated before. Also, the use of ZK_keys.lua is very very nice. I'll have to check if those settings carry over to SP, though. Seems like that is part of the point. |
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First few games crashed ~3 minutes in with segfaults >:( Hopefully that was an aberration. |
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havent had any crashes so far. Played at least 5 single player games vs AI and locally. |
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We play few 1vs1 and 2vs2 games. All ok But 4vs4, and 1vs1vs1 (ffa) crushed... |
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http://pastebin.com/xk368nJm crashed for me and other player |
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I somewhat dislike how (most of) the new models all have the always-on turbojet that makes them look more like a fixedwing, and doesn't make sense when idle anyway. Maybe i should write it as "i'm so gonna go fix it". PS: i got it to crash reliably in singleplayer, but can't see any specific reason. |
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i think vindigator looks to big for its speed... |
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Annihilator is now weaker than before the big epic cost-buff ~one year ago. r2728: (5th May, 2011) Cost: 2200 HP: 7000 Reload: 8s r4495: (2nd Dec, 2011) Cost: 1500 HP: 7000 Reload: 8s Yesterday: (20th Feb, 2013) Cost: 1500 HP: 6000 Reload: 8s Now: (21th Feb, 2013) Cost: 1800 HP: 6000 Reload: 10s |
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:D the napalm nade is back! woo wooo! the reload nerf really killed it but now i can bring back my fireman com! |
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Skasi, I don't care when you say it. |
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NP, I know you suck at balancing. |
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i dont think this will work out. keeping the new weapon and buffing jump hmm. what about not giving sumo a bad (and non-fitting) weapon in the first place? it still sucks, because the main gun sucks. i doesnt work out on the unit, and it doesnt feel right. why not nerf some other properity instead, and give it back its heatray? |
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Those new models look great. Now that we have a new model for Crane, could we keep the old Crane model on the airplane lab and use the new model on the Gunship lab and give them different stats? (like making the Gunship con slower-but-tougher or something)? It'd be nice to get rid of the *one* case where you have a single unit in two different labs. |
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It has ARM logo on. No. But having separate aircons would be nice. |
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Fixed wing con could drop mini nano bombs :) |
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Okay, I gotta look into how Spring stores the skins. Blotting out the ARM logo can *not* be that hard. |
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This is the moment where i ask - "maybe, make a new model instead"? |
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Anni, DDM nerf was definitely needed Buff to sumo and disco rave is good but sumo is still useless I'm glad you fixed those com modules but again it's only a minor fix, doesn't really deal with the main problem of com morph |
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Segfault crisis ended! Thanks to    [pikts]wolas for figuring out the bug.
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Thank you so much for the manual airpad land command! |
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You need more then 100 newtons to precise scuttle+ lots of valkyres that now suck,and also even more newtons because i didnt test how high will a valkyre go with cargo.Is this the nerf we want, so space luncher is more expensive then starlight?Remember to micro space luncher is hard, and you can kill a target with 1 per minute in best cases, and you are usless in ground, attacks and other micro.Starlight kills a lot in 1 minute, if you use it well,so i dont see the reason of the nerf yet. |
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too much impulse on the levelers, and 15% speed per module is also too much. |
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   Licho - I was thinking the same thing, actually - a con that drops a bomb. Bomb is a zero-cost "egg" that automatically starts morphing into an immobile nanoturret-like unit.... say, 110 cost 5m/s builder (tricky to balance against the Caretaker, though). Making its deployment morph-based eliminates the bomber having a "firing cost" and the problems associated with that, instead the "cost" being a morph intrinsic to the unit itself. Also, you could start queuing orders while the builder is deploying/morphing, which would help a bit with the lack of queue-ability associated with the builder-dropper itself.The trick would be balancing it with the Caretaker though... I mean, how do you make this thing useful without making it OP compared to the Caretaker, or UP compared to a mobile builder?   Klon - 15% speed per-Servo was done because 10% range-boost on the targeting system made the other 10% upgrades look worthless. 10% damage or speed is *far* less useful to a unit than a 10% range upgrade.
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Morphdrop sounds somewhat completely zerg overpowered. You can make virtually unlimited number of things this way. I.e, deploy 20 eggs in a line -> in 30 seconds, you have 20 llt's. |
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  Anarchid - it's a bomber. It still has to go home and refuel between shots. This effectively gives it a capped buildpower. And all it does is place static builders - those builders in turn must assemble the defenses. That means putting a *lot* of unnecessary immobile BP out in the field - just capping mexes with this thing would be a nightmare unless they were clustered close enough that you could cap multiple with a single builder. I'd be more worried about it being UP or micro-hell (instead of just ordering a nearby con to go do something, you've got to order a bomber to drop the builder and then start assigning orders to the builder once it appears).The excess-field-BP problem could be balanced with some kind of high-efficiency self-reclaim command tied to the immobile builder or something, but that only makes even *more* micro for simple mex claiming. Yeah, it would be tricky. |
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Oh, a reloadable thing? Sounds interesting (and explains even better why reload pads should be in Econ tab). You won't need to balance it against caretakers, though, you want to balance it against landgrab potential, because it allows all kinds of plops right at the frontline without risk of losing the builder. (of course, the morf-unit will probably be rather easily killable). It also seems to have a malus of being unassistable. tl:dr, sign me up for the dropper con faction. if it gets traction, i might even make a model (planes and such are much easier to animate and texture than those pesky 'bots) |
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maybe it does look useless, but is it actually? speed makes your com survive, what good on the other hand is a 1000 range sniper com vs 10 fleas? |
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klon lets be honest, you're not the resident com morphing expert, all your coms are bad and you should feel bad if you're saying 15% movement speed module is op then why dont you go ahead and do speed com lvl 5 morph in game even at 15% I dont think its worth putting on my com |
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lol all my coms are bad, why? as far as it comes to beeing an expert, youre probably right, im not an expert in com morphing. but neither are you - in fact, youre practically a newbie, so why should your opinion on com morphing matter? you dont judge the value of percentage bonuses on coms correctly, speed is quite valuable just as much as range can be, just depends on what coms youre putting it on. |
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com morphing was all I did back when it was worth doing, just because it was the most fun thing to do and I try to test different coms still but I only have so much patience, losing is not much fun. One of the coms I recently tested was speed com and I thought at least it will be fun but no, the speed boost was barely even noticeable and it didnt make a difference, I was still killed in a couple of shots just like any other com that's why I was trying to get it buffed but even with 15% I dont think it's really worth having |
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oh really you still got killed in a couple of shots, even tho you had speed modules that totally increase your max hp? what an outrage! seriously, 10% on anything is just that. 10% more range dont help you against anything that is faster than you, 10% damage is arguably useles on most com designs because it doesnt give you any tactical advantage like higher range or more speed would, and if enemy has speedy dgun com all you damage modules are worthless. if you have a shitton of hp on the other hand enemy might just skirmish you with his slightly faster, higher range com/unit. when you were able to commorph in every game back then, and win, there must have been something broken with it because a strategy that relies on microing a single, powerful unit cant work out in each and every game, especially not on large maps which allow enemy to just avoid/ignore your super com. you cannot demand that commorph ist useful in any situation, nothing else in the game is. |
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update commander page tooltips for high power servos (currently 10%) |
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Klon calm down, it's MightySheep. :P |
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I'm not sure how you think a 700 range 1.9 speed sniper com would work any better against fleas klon... The weapon's the problem there, not the range mods. Range helps survivability too you know, just by keeping you from having to extend as far to attack, whittling away at any rushes before they can start shooting and letting you skirm heavy hitters. I'm intrigued by the bomber-con for fixedwings, sounds interesting at least. |
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i doesnt, and thats exactly what i said. or was your point that a slightly faster sniper com doesnt survive either? yes it doesnt survive either, the point was to demonstrate how 10% more range, tho seemingly superior to 10% speed, in fact arent. now if you if you choose the example of not a broken sniper com design, but a 3.0 speed dgun com you now have the situation that i can just run away from almost all kinds of units that actually kill it - units faster than 3.0 are mostly raiders, and riot guns/hmg etc make it next to impossible to swarm coms. |
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you forget to mention that com dgun has a 16 second reload klon that 16x the reload of an ult meaning... you can kill roadrunner dgun com with most anything once its used its one shot also klon theres a wonderfull unit called a gnat it emps comms fast and it decloaks cloaked units and its almost perfect hardcounter to dgun com so... next time you see a dgun com, make 10 gnats and emp the fuck out of it |
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I have not seen this discussion concerning the Phoenix deforming terrain. Can someone please direct me to it or explain it? I don't object to it, I would just like to see the thought and reasoning behind it. |
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Klon range modules are still probably best modules after dgun+strike+cloak will be solved by removing either 1, speed modules automatically will lose its "opness". Because honestly recon com should be best now not strike... And about range modules sniper com has range of anihilator, you simply can hide behind porc, fleas really wont help you, but of course theoretically sniper com can be killed by 10 fleas. At least so far I m not renaming my "sshh I M OP commander" (which has this name for at least a year now) :P Other case is damage boosters. These are really useless so far. Even doubling com damage wont be any good it would still have less range and less damage than cheaper dante. |
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my sound glitvhes, my fps droped to like 10 (most times) from about ~40-50. :\ |
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   Perq could you search through the versions between this version and last stable to see when this first occurred?
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just dont think this is true. theyre all good, just depends what youre using them for, no reason any upgrade should give more % than the others. speedy coms can decide whether or not they wanna get in close range to enemy, this is big advantage. just as valuable as having high range, the outcome purely depends on situation. look for example at this trololo game, where speedy dgun com catches up to my sunburst com with way higher range, and just kills it - even if the sunburst gun wasnt on reload at that time, i could only have fired 1 shot which wouldnt have been enough to kill it. http://zero-k.info/Battles/Detail/149985 |
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  Fireplace: I believe it mainly came from how easily a Napalm bomber could shut down a factory. I linked a tournament game in my above post that demonstrates this.
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commander pimped with 8 speed boosters can outrun ravagers. ZOMG. |
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it's a bit hard killing speed coms, but if you consider the 4000 metal investment, you don't think that they are op annymore |
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 Shadowfury333After watching the replay a second time, I now see what you are referring to. I would agree, that needed to go. |
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If we have a problem with fringe cases we can limit the max number of modules. If the stacking situation is not a huge issue, we can leave it in, but I'd like just taking 1-2 modules to be viable in a build that relies on kiting, cloaking, repair or close range. I think we should have more conversion modules. A max 1-2 25% speed bonus maybe with a penalty to range (say) would allow you to min-max and get geniunely fast comms while avoiding the fringe case of uberfast artyskirms. We could leave in the 15% module, maybe discount it. Both 10% and 8 max modules were totally arbitrary numbers subject to balance, not absolute designs. I'm going to start a new thread about bombcons. |
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i just dont see why speed modules have to give higher % than other modules, somehow people did drive home the point over the last few days that speed was a most useless statistic, but the very same people are now abusing speedy dgun coms (which btw dont need range at all) since the change. speed is just as valuable as anything, look at all the fast units in the game, is is irrelevant that theyre fast? could glaives just be 2.0 speed and work out? |
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> i just dont see why speed modules have to give higher % than other modules Klon by now you must have figured out that tomatoes are not potatoes and beef is not pork. And I gave up hope long time ago to see good 8x damage booster com. |
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range, damage, speed, hp are not attributes of equal value, on any unit. in most combat situations, range is the most valuable, then damage/hp, then speed. I agree with the 15% boost for speed modules. |
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wolas give up on klon he won't understand the woes of people who use labs other then Lveh, air, cloaky, and dont spam defences... |
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"Perq could you search through the versions between this version and last stable to see when this first occurred?" The last version worked good for me. This patch gave me some fps drop and errors. |
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http://code.google.com/p/zero-k/source/detail?r=9592 aaand whe are right back where we started, thank you licho so much... |
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Perq there are a lot of versions: http://code.google.com/p/zero-k/source/list?num=5000 You can go through rapid and get each version using those version number tags. The stable release versions have tags too which can be found on the linked page. |
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that update sucks! |
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WE cant use space luncher anymore...newtons are usless against gunships.Can we do something out? |
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yeah, feels like backwards progress |