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Krow against 11 defenders and stiner was fail

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12 years ago
We have played against EI with 3v2, but lazerman was a really noob.

He don't build mexes has only 5 raiders and build athena to get the top left hill surrounded by water

Spidercom sent a Krow for a joke and failed against solars, 2 nanos, 1 stinger, 1 stardust and 11 defenders.

Is Krow nerfed too much?
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12 years ago
Sounds like fail micro for the attacker.

I guess he probably:
-kept shooting at solars instead of defense
-stayed in range of stardust, which has epic DPS and can kill even heavy units fast
-attacked hlt and stardust without killing repairing nanos first
-didn't kill defenders before they shot second / third salvo
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Skasi
12 years ago
Let's see.. 11 defenders

880 metal plus 1 stinger

1280 metal plus 2 nanos

1720 metal plus 1 stardust

1940 metal.

Defenses are meant to make 2.5x cost against highly mobile units, no? And I didn't even add the solars.

Krow's meant to destroy eco: fusions, singularity gens, not defenses.
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12 years ago
Krow got over-nerfed in my opinion.
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USranko_o
12 years ago
1. i was a spec
2. Its hard for me to see why i should use a krow besides the fact that it looks cool, since it is slow and low flying, making any ground defenses just as effective against it, if not more effect than anti-air.
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USranko_o
12 years ago
sorry for double post. Personally i like the mechanic that it cant shoot stuff that is underneath it. in its current state though it is useless, something needs to be buffed, hp, damage or maybe speed. I noticed there was a "blackhole generator" added to it in a changelog. I dont know what this is but it would sound as if this could fix the krow if its really awesome/useful


otherwise only reason i would make a krow is the new model.
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Skasi
12 years ago
Oh hey.. I didn't even know it got nerfed. And now that I found the rev: Yippie! Puppy and Krow were made useless.

Now that explains why I thought I was teh pro vs Krow (20% weaker) all of a sudden and why my puppy-spam (more than 50% weaker) didn't save my sacred ass..
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12 years ago
The main nerfs were Speed, Range and Model.

Main changes r1000 to now:
  • Size (40,20,40) -> (80,30,80) (model nerf)
  • Speed 4.03 -> 3.4
  • Range 550 -> 400
  • Krow can no longer shoot directly downwards and takes a bit of time to aim
  • It now has some kind of gravity weapon

So it has the same HP and DPS and now it even has some kind of gravity weapon. The issue with Krow was that it could run away far too easily and as such took a massive AA density to stop it from slowly picking off the defences.

It is a big unit that is good with retreat so I'll highlight r909. This reduced the turnaround time for large units which are able to retreat.
  • Repair cost and time reduced to 33%.
  • Repair time increased to 200% if a unit has been damaged within the last 10 seconds.
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Skasi
12 years ago
Well it's main use was for killing eco or static defenses, not units. So the only use the gravgun has is throwing mobile AA about. Aint gravguns on air units strange though? I don't think air units are affected by gravity.
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12 years ago
I believe that krow is still very good investment and i have seen it turn the tide many times.
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12 years ago
even since the last nerf ?

I think it should be able to retreat a bit faster from jetros, AA spiders ...

Naybe we should add a termorary speed booster like on the jump com.
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USranko_o
12 years ago
lol give it jumpjets
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12 years ago
I agree the gravgun is a bit of a strange weapon for it as it was mostly assault. But I agree with Licho, I have seen it used well since but it has to be used well. The timeframe for retreating is a lot more precise with the speed reduction.
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12 years ago
It is a 5000 metal unit.

it hurts if it fails to break the front or can be avoided by a small amount of fighters.

I really suggest AA weapons and a black hole generator to kill one single building each 10 seconds.

Since the gunship lab has only a 300 metal AA unit who can also be used against ground and the Air lab only a 300 metal AA unit but a 2000 metal bomber, it seems fair to spend the gunship lab a 5 k metal AA unit.

The combination of a black hole generator and the temporary speed booster like the double / trible range of a jumpjet it is more usefull against eco and super weapons and less usefull for air support of the battlefield.

Maybe we can reduce the HPs and add a energy shield who only recharges if the main weapon or the speed boster don't recharge.

Or we can make a single recharge for speed boost and main weapon togheter.
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12 years ago
I have increased the range by 50 to compensate for the effective range reduction introduced in the model change. Behavioural fixes have also been applied, for example it now targets based on weapons arcs properly. If the target passes out of the weapon arc of a gun the gun will aquire a new target instead of jamming.

The tilt and roll has also been removed as those made it move closer to opponents when firing and made riots better against it.
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12 years ago
But it's still a disadvantage if it have to aim for every unit - exspecially because it costs 5 k metal.

It is less effective than a Dante, less effective than this op super coms, but it can't be killed so fast by things like skuttle ...

Maybe we should make THIS:

- - - Advantages - - - - -|- - - Disadvantages - - -
All Terrain - - - - - - - | It is slow
It has much HP - - - - - -| It has low damage and have to aim each target
It can kill eco - - - - - | 3 chainsaws or flaks ( build against licho ) can make problems
can kill units fast - - - | It can't fire directly under itself - weak against some fast units
good to kill spread Aegis | can't kill an with more shields protected Aegis direct under itself
it don't spend your enemy metal by it's wreckage | it can be fixed soon
It is strong against commanders | it is weak against Air

But in my oppinion is it hard to defend it against massive Air - and this massive Air is likely in your enemies base or arrives really fast.

It shouldn't be used to kill a enemy army like Dante and Brawler.

It should be used to kill eco structures and nuke silos ...

It have to kill it through heavy porc.

-> Results:

It should be fast enough to kill this structures.
If it kill something it should be vulnerable at this time.
-> Warpdrive

It shouldn't be killed by enemy Air witch forces you to spend a horrible amount of Support-Fighters.
-> AA weapons

It should be used to kill single targets very efficient.
-> Black hole generator and long reload time.

It shouldn't suck so much energy for repair and should can repair itself in unprotected areas behind your enemies base while NOT attacking any ground units like base structures.
-> add shield, but reduce HP for balance, add recharge but only if not attacking.
--> Maybe we can reduce the HPs and add a energy shield who only recharges if the main weapon or the speed boster don't recharge.

...
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12 years ago
Just a wee point or 2: The tilt and roll was added primarily to allow all 3 turrets to be able to aim at it's main target. It also allows it to aim slightly closer to targets right next to it. Would it not be better to raise it's flight altitude a little to reduce the vulnerabilty to it's underside a little.
In any event shouldn't clever micro management to attack a powerful unit on it's weak spot should be encouraged?
Lastly the roll and tilt looks good, I'll be the first to admit it's not perfect but I'm little miffed that you removed it altogether without considering other options. Especially since it was a lot of work to get everything pointing in the right direction.
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12 years ago
I don't underestimate the hard work behind this model, but If I build a 5 K metal unit I want to micro it - else I can also build a Big Berta...

Wouldn't it be good to have such a unit?

you don't even need to change the model or the aiming ..

-> exchange the lazer effects with small flack effects ( half damage and 3 shots per minute for each turret ) so makes about 2.25 of the flak damage ( 1125 metal in flaks ) and add a shield and black hole generator to it.

The script can be like this:



Object variables:
charge = 0 to 10 seconds, default 10
disable warpdrive

Any action:
charge = 0
recharge()

OnCharged to 10
enable warpdrive

Shield recharge code:
Add if ( charge < 10 ) => do nothing.

On use warpdrive:
speed = 1000 %
charge = -1// don't recharge
disable warpdrive

On reach Waypoint
speed = 100 %
charge = 0// reenable recharge
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12 years ago
We're not turning Krow in an AA and shielded gunship.

Aesthetically I dislike the tilt and roll because it looks wrong for such a large gunship with that engine setup. Tilting to fire the 3rd turret over the large bump in the middle looks awkward. Also the turrets didn't point in quite the right direction.

More importantly (imo) is that the previous aiming behaviour made the unit very annoying to use. The tilting would impose a delay in reaiming which should not be present for the unit's role. The use of "return false" in the aim script meant that guns would often refuse to fire if the player flew the gunship over what it happened to be targetting, I am not against a vulnerable spot but I am against a vulnerable spot which causes the guns to not fire. The correct implementation of fire arcs is mainDir and maxAngleDif because Spring takes these into account and retargets if a unit falls into the blind spot of a turret.

To fire all 3 guns at once the Krow flies backwards as backwards it has a decent firing arc for all 3 guns. This looks slightly silly but at least the unit works.
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12 years ago
I think we should make a Air-Demitrant !!!

If we can't turn Krow into this, use the old Krow for this role and the new Krow modell for the Air-Demitrant role with the Black-Hole-Ground-Attack.

Or turn the upside down and place a flak on the center :)
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