Loading...
  OR  Zero-K Name:    Password:   

Remove micro

42 posts, 1678 views
Post comment
Filter:    Player:  
Page of 3 (42 records)
sort

10 years ago
Let's remove micro from game so we can have actually strategy game.
How we do that? It's easy, just one change:
Units on move command (right click) wont attack. You must use fight command.
(We could add more behaviours for fight command)
:)
+0 / -0

10 years ago
[21:45] [GBC]Fred the micro and depth of possibilities within it are one of the greatest things about this game
[21:46] [GBC]Fred over the moronic SC2 style of play
[21:46] [GBC]Fred for example
[21:46] Vistritium hmm..
[21:46] Vistritium no
[21:46] [GBC]Fred You're saying that because you're incapable of that
[21:46] [GBC]Fred is what it is at its most basic
[21:46] [GBC]Fred Practice.
[21:47] Vistritium I dont like it
[21:47] Vistritium and what do you mean by "moronic SC2 style"
[21:47] [GBC]Fred I find what counts for micro in SC2 to be moronic and simple
[21:47] [GBC]Fred it lacks something
[21:47] Vistritium its about fast clicking, fast reaction
[21:48] Vistritium I dont like it, this is not strategy
[21:48] Vistritium I like everything slow, when u have time to think
[21:48] Vistritium and choose good reaction
[21:48] [GBC]Fred what you're after has a name
[21:48] [GBC]Fred turn based
[21:48] [GBC]Fred this is real time
[21:48] [GBC]Fred real time requires reactions to adapt to adverse conditions
[21:49] [GBC]Fred its part of how the game functions
[21:49] Vistritium NOTA is real time too, but its little micro in there
[21:49] [GBC]Fred same with bA
[21:49] Vistritium no
[21:49] [GBC]Fred because they are much larger scale
[21:49] Vistritium the reason why I like zero-k is fight command that micro for me
[21:49] Vistritium but it isnt good enough :<
[21:50] [GBC]Fred zk is scaled down, singular units holw greater importance
[21:50] Vistritium well, one of reasons P
[21:50] [GBC]Fred and therefore greater command over them is required to manage those assets
[21:50] [GBC]Fred effectively
[21:50] Vistritium but that was something that really got me here "finally I dont have to micro them and can do other things like managing whole army"
+0 / -0


10 years ago
If you want "pure strategy" go try some turn based one.Why would we use physically simulated engine and then abstract it all?

ZK is real time strategy and the way how micro works is one of the best parts of it.

Mindless micro can be automated, interesting micro stays.
+0 / -0
quote:
Mindless micro can be automated, interesting micro stays.

Thissssssss. It's the thing that ZK "gets" and what so many other rts's/games in general don't.
+0 / -0
Micro is a core component of RTS games. There are games out there that don't require you to micro at all - some city simulation games for example. Just macro, no worries about managing individual units. But I don't think any of us are looking for that in an RTS.

Also I don't really agree with SC2 micro being moronic - it just gives you more control(except for the fact that in SC2 you can't shoot ground with regular attacks). Meaning the skill needed to produce games that are enojyable to watch is much higher compared to ZK. Is it good or bad, well there's no clear answer to that. Both have their advantages and it comes down to personal taste.
+0 / -0
10 years ago
Sounds like you want a serious 4x competitive game more than an RTS game.

I do think micro is deeper in sc2, most of the micro here is working around or abusing engine nuances. The whole shooting while moving is what removes most of the micro actually.
+0 / -0
10 years ago
quote:
[SC2 micro] just gives you more control

Does it? You can't drag a formation, if you select more than 1 unit type you can still only cast the spells of one of them, you can't dodge slow shots.
ZK doesn't need high skill for an enjoyable match because tedious micro is automated, however there are lots of micro opportunities and if there were 400 APM koreans playing ZK you'd probably get to watch some sick moves, especially since they wouldn't need to focus on macro that much as it's highly automated too.
+0 / -0
10 years ago
Most of the apm in sc2 goes into combating the restrictive UI. Though SC1 was worse in that regard.

Most of the micro in sc2 goes into stutterstepping, timing/positioning of spells, manual formations, moving drops, manual detonations and multiprong battles.
+0 / -0

10 years ago
Pretty much yeah. The game is designed to need it, though. If SC2 had custom formations there would be no counter to marines :)
+0 / -0

10 years ago
Most of the apm goes to spamclicking move/attack commands...
+0 / -0
Well that's mostly useless apm, I think we were more talking about efficient apm here. You spam to keep your hands moving fast so later when you actually need that much apm you are already up to speed. But tbh spamming isn't even necessary, there are plenty of players in master leage who don't spam much/at all. It's just something that most people prefer to do for the slight short term and possible long term advantages.
+0 / -0

10 years ago
CZrankAdminLicho - actually, the micro is the reason I can't really stand most strategy games anymore. I got into a strategy game kick on my DS a few years back and the late-game in Advanced Wars or Civ Revolutions is just nauseatingly tedious.
+0 / -0
10 years ago
While we're at it, let's remove all macro
+0 / -0
10 years ago
actualy lets just scrap the whole engine, we can play zk via paper & pencil
+0 / -0
10 years ago
We cannot possibly remove micro, that would be insane. A lot of units require micro to be used well (like glaives). Remove micro and you can bet on losing 60% of players.
+0 / -0

10 years ago
-There is limited time to give input to your game for both players.
-The faster player gives more input.
-ZK (and a lot of other RTSes) have unlimited potential for more commands to be given.

You can't have a real time game without micro :S

You can argue this game goes too fast though. So you slow it down to XTA's speed. What happens? You have more time on your hands! what do you use it for? Trying to dodge every individual projectile during the fights. XD

The designer needs to make sure that the most obvious and effective commands you can give to the game are interesting for the player. That there are real tactical and strategical choices to be made. This is unlike starcrafts' larvae mechanic, lack of formations etc etc (+all those things we love about Spring)
This "intersting to the player" part is, of course, subjective and the reason why we play a game or don't.
+0 / -0

10 years ago
Vistritium, you should try Achron! If the fight doesn't go your way you can just go back in time and it all over again or avoid the fight all together.

Random game idea:
"RTS" where players are allowed to pause the game to give orders to a static game. After each pause you disallow pause for X time. There should be some reward for using as little pauses as possible. mmm...
+0 / -0
quote:
SC1 was worse in that regard.

Und dann: inject larva, the reason why i don't play sc2. It's okay to have an imperfect (non-zk, if we wanna jab) interface, but demanding it in such underhanded ways is just a no-no.
+0 / -0


10 years ago
Floris that is called cannon time.. it has existed since Age of Empires 1 ..

+0 / -0

10 years ago
Only been playing Total Annihilation and Starcraft since 1997 :D
+0 / -0
Page of 3 (42 records)