At the moment it seems like the greatest development work that would help the game and its community is improving how ZK deals with new players. This might include looking at: -Tutorial missions (review / upgrade) -Investigate what issues do newbies encounter / cause -Should some rooms be locked until certain basics are met? (plz) -Is there a way to improve the possibility of newbies getting/accepting advice -Are important messages given to newbies in the right place in the UI? Sortale and I tried to help by making a training/tutorial mission but it attracted a lot of criticism and negative comments. Possibly it didn't fit with some plans of core devs. It would be great and I humbly request to see the awesome devs with their magical powers spend time on above issues as it would probably improve game even more than further tweaks/gfx/features. Especially as migration finished (?) and Steam soon maybe(?), and most common compaints often involve newbie non-newbie interaction?
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Server Migration is complete. Repository Migration is complete. Engine Migration is, essentially, still ongoing. Engine Migration claims higher priority: it doesn't matter if your tutorials are not very good when the game crashes and such. Newbie experience is still absolutely important, however, and good news is you can still help out! Getting some negative feedback shouldn't be a stopper. Just use it to do better next time!
+2 / -0
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I've already spent a lot of thought on this. My biggest focus has been on the website. I started working on a new landing page after providing a mockup and gathering ideas, but with Steam Greenlight comming closer I'd rather see ZKL and the HOME tab improved first. ZKL could probably do with a cleaner interface. Many buttons need to go (Maps, Replays, Forum tabs; Rapid and Benchmark in Settings). HOME page needs to be cleaner too. There's so many things that don't add to the game at all, yet take up valuable space: Badge, xpbar, planetwars stuff, trophies can be removed from the HOME tab and only displayed when mousing over a player's name (profile). Unlocks can be merged with commander config (only modules are unlocks), random unit manual entry is probably not worth the space requirement. Zero-K logo could be made smaller. Suddenly you can see useful things like last battles and posted threads without the need to scroll. There's even space for a little new-player-guide to make sure new players don't get overwhelmed by the lobby.
+0 / -0
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Make it impossible to build anything before the factory has been plopped. Not just "greying out" the other buildoptions, completly blocking player from going to the wrong tabs. Would make sure that newbs get at least one thing right in their buildorder: markers with "factory first!!11" are way too common. Sadly there seems not to be too much interesst in removing such noobtraps because somehow there is always some obscure situation where someone wants to start with something else than a factory. Or just to save the plop for later in the game. Such edgecases create noobtraps. The pregame-queue thing does not solve it, infact for newbies it kind of makes it more confusing. It is another thing that looks helpful but in reality is only useful to experienced players who know already what they want to do.
+2 / -0
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quote:
Profile page needs to be cleaner too. |
Just separate profile and home pages. Can't get it clearer.
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quote:
Just separate profile and home pages. Can't get it clearer |
That's why I said "show on mouseover". All the useless fluff can be shown on mouseover. Mouseover can be the profile page. I'll update the post to make that clearer.
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I just realized I read only half of ur post...
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I've played for a bit, but pretty much aimlessly clicking and doing thins, being expected to know every great strategy and how to conduct perfectly and carry the team from day 1. I feel that the general atmosphere is "if you don't play well, you don't belong". while it's an awesome game I often get the feeling I should try playing a different game.
+0 / -0
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quote:
I feel that the general atmosphere is "if you don't play well, you don't belong". while it's an awesome game I often get the feeling I should try playing a different game. |
Yeah, unfortunately it seems that the players in the "Teams: All Welcome" room take things too seriously all the time. I'd recommend focusing on 1v1 or 2v2, but I can understand why that would be intimidating. However, I've not found anyone who has a "play well or leave" attitude in 1v1, so don't feel pressured there.
+3 / -0
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Hmm, I was going to try featuring that teams tutorial mission. ...Okay, done. quote:
somehow there is always some obscure situation where someone wants to start with something else than a factory |
I pretty much always start 3x(mex + solar) and wait for the other people on team to plop before I decide which fac I want.
+0 / -0
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quote:
I pretty much always start 3x(mex + solar) and wait for the other people on team to plop before I decide which fac I want. |
Used to do the same. That's what pre-game queuing is for. Now that I can see what facs people go I usually plop right at start. Just have to keep telling people to use pre-game-queue. Also, being the last to place sucks for pre-game queue. On that note, build spacing doesn't work before the game starts. :(
+0 / -0
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if you rely on the pregame queue, you still have to scroll around and see all queued facs, which are hollow. suggetsting a tool: either -label the facs -automate chat: player [playername] has queued fac [facname] -display a list with allied players and the corresponding fac in queue (like the player list), which disappears when game starts. 1st option with labels give additional info (location, player and factype)
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to clarify, not everyone's like that. there's some nice people too :)
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@Powerguy I think you've pretty much hit the mark. Part of the problem is we don't have a large enough community (yet) to offer the different skill level teams games. The different skill levels cause some friction that magnifies any already existing player rudeness etc. My proposed solution is to offer a better single player/newbie training so they are better equipped for the teams rooms, and then get tougher on team players that continue to be rude or nasty. Then if the playerbase grows we can get different skill level rooms to suit. :)
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>> Sadly there seems not to be too much interesst in removing such noobtraps because somehow there is always some obscure situation where someone wants to start with something else than a factory. Or just to save the plop for later in the game. Such edgecases create noobtraps.   [2up]knorke the solution is quite simple and obvious: restriction should be applied based on player level. < 10 lvl: must plox factory first
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And how on earth would you want to convey that? The game is already confusing enough, explaining to the newbie why he cannot start with mexes but the guy right next to him can will not help for that matter. It's just inconsistent and arbitrary.
+2 / -0
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For that matter, the new players which are most irritating to experienced players are those who do not learn... and so they won't be any better after having reached level 10. The Newbie room does get used sometimes, but not all that often - perhaps the problem is that a significant fraction of the players who have the dedication to idle on Silver for a while to attract a newbie game quickly find themselves with >1600 ELO :)
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Some nubs don't listen, some vets are rude. The secret is, they need separate rooms :)
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Of course eaiser said than done, at least until we double/triple community size. Would be cool if someone better than me and Sortale could take a crack and improving tutorial mission(s). Thanks KR for featuring it anyway we will keep working on it when we get chance.
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  TheEloIsALiehe can't because he is a noob, the same as in MMO RPG such restrictions should limit newb from doing things that can harm them/their team and be easily removed 1 by 1 as newb getting experienced. This is also a motivating factor in playing, improve and getting experience. whatever I believe such kind of restrictions should exist only in "Teams: all welcome"
+1 / -0
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