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It seems to be the common opinion that sea is inferior-ZK and much less worth playing. This is an unfortunate state of affairs.
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It seems to be the common opinion that sea is inferior-ZK and much less worth playing. This is an unfortunate state of affairs.
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Personally I think the current state of sea is an improvement on much that has come before (Duck meta, anyone?) but still frequently makes for boring and samey games.
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Personally I think the current state of sea is an improvement on much that has come before (Duck meta, anyone?) but still frequently makes for boring and samey games.
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The following is not the sum total of my thoughts about sea but it will do for a start. Much more would become super wall-of-texty. Might add more later once these points have been digested.
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The following is not the sum total of my thoughts about sea but it will do for a start. Much more would become super wall-of-texty. Might add more later once these points have been digested.
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[u][b]Is it even possible to do sea well?[/b][/u]
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[u][b]Is it even possible to do sea well?[/b][/u]
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| 9 |
Sea has two fundamental properties that land does not:
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Sea has two fundamental properties that land does not:
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1) The surface of the sea is flat. The terrain is much less interesting.
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1) The surface of the sea is flat. The terrain is much less interesting.
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2) Land battles have two domains (land and air) [color=orange][tooltip=one could make the argument that ground inaccessible to certain unit types is another, but whatever][?][/tooltip][/color]; sea battles have three to four (water surface, under water, air, and sometimes land).
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2) Land battles have two domains (land and air) [color=orange][tooltip=one could make the argument that ground inaccessible to certain unit types is another, but whatever][?][/tooltip][/color]; sea battles have three to four (water surface, under water, air, and sometimes land).
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1) just tends to make many sea battles the same, an effect which is further pushed by the comparative lack of variety in sea options. Some sea maps are exceptions; in my experience Flooded Valley typically makes for interesting games.
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1) just tends to make many sea battles the same, an effect which is further pushed by the comparative lack of variety in sea options. Some sea maps are exceptions; in my experience Flooded Valley typically makes for interesting games.
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2) leads to less units in each factory being applicable to each of the combat domains. The majority of sea-going units are totally helpless against an underwater threat, for instance, which forces you to escort *everything* with something that can hit subs.
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2) leads to less units in each factory being applicable to each of the combat domains. The majority of sea-going units are totally helpless against an underwater threat, for instance, which forces you to escort *everything* with something that can hit subs.
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The second issue is less of a concern on maps like Onyx Cauldron which incorporate bits of water; Ship is not relevant here and both Amph and Hover can affect the land and water surface equally.
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The second issue is less of a concern on maps like Onyx Cauldron which incorporate bits of water; Ship is not relevant here and both Amph and Hover can affect the land and water surface equally.
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[u][b]Underwater Defences[/b][/u]
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[u][b]Underwater Defences[/b][/u]
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Part of the way in which land games deal with the separation between land and air domains is by putting most of the complexity in ground-to-air units in static defences, which all factories have equal access to. This means that each factory can get away with only 1-2 units which significantly interact with air, without feeling too shortchanged in their capability to deal with diverse air threats.
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Part of the way in which land games deal with the separation between land and air domains is by putting most of the complexity in ground-to-air units in static defences, which all factories have equal access to. This means that each factory can get away with only 1-2 units which significantly interact with air, without feeling too shortchanged in their capability to deal with diverse air threats.
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At sea, each factory has a similar (slightly larger) handful of units which interact with underwater enemies:
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At sea, each factory has a similar (slightly larger) handful of units which interact with underwater enemies:
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- Dagger, Claymore
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- Dagger, Claymore
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- Duck, Scallop
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- Duck, Scallop
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- Snake, Hunter, Crusader sidearm, technically Serpent
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- Snake, Hunter, Crusader sidearm, technically Serpent
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However, there's all of two defensive structures which interact with underwater units (Urchin and Gauss); furthermore Gauss is largely an afterthought and can't even be built on sea surface [color=orange][tooltip=IIRC this is a legacy from Morph considerations and could be changed.][?][/tooltip][/color].
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However, there's all of two defensive structures which interact with underwater units (Urchin and Gauss); furthermore Gauss is largely an afterthought and can't even be built on sea surface [color=orange][tooltip=IIRC this is a legacy from Morph considerations and could be changed.][?][/tooltip][/color].
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This means that Urchin has to be very much a generalist, to be able to handle Duck, Scallop and Snake (plus possibly Buoy, Grizzly, whatever) [color=orange][tooltip=Imagine Defender with an area-of-effect attack. Why would you build anything else?][?][/tooltip][/color]. By working with Gauss (making it buildable on sea would be a start) and possibly adding another anti-sub defence, I think it would then be feasible to make Urchin less generalist, introduce an element of actual choice in deciding what defences to make at sea, and taking a bit of the burden off the individual factories' anti-sub units.
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This means that Urchin has to be very much a generalist, to be able to handle Duck, Scallop and Snake (plus possibly Buoy, Grizzly, whatever) [color=orange][tooltip=Imagine Defender with an area-of-effect attack. Why would you build anything else?][?][/tooltip][/color]. By working with Gauss (making it buildable on sea would be a start) and possibly adding another anti-sub defence, I think it would then be feasible to make Urchin less generalist, introduce an element of actual choice in deciding what defences to make at sea, and taking a bit of the burden off the individual factories' anti-sub units.
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(Incidentally I am also not a fan of Urchins being buildable outside water. Leads to some very wonky interactions with Amph factory, especially with benefit of terraform.)
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[u][b]Sea Map Design[/b][/u]
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[u][b]Sea Map Design[/b][/u]
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As noted above I find Flooded Valley much more interesting than most sea maps. Perhaps more small sea maps are required. The design space is limited but surely there's more than one or two maps in it. Sands of War is OKish, I'm not a huge fan of Coastal.
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As noted above I find Flooded Valley much more interesting than most sea maps. Perhaps more small sea maps are required. The design space is limited but surely there's more than one or two maps in it. Sands of War is OKish, I'm not a huge fan of Coastal.
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Maps with two seas divided by a land bridge (Small Supreme Battlefield and Tangerine come to mind) tend to play very wonky unless one is playing with a very large team (8v8 upwards) since the three separate fronts have difficulty reinforcing each other; a mismatch on one side translates direcly into a win in a way the same situation on Comet Catcher would not.
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Maps with two seas divided by a land bridge (Small Supreme Battlefield and Tangerine come to mind) tend to play very wonky unless one is playing with a very large team (8v8 upwards) since the three separate fronts have difficulty reinforcing each other; a mismatch on one side translates direcly into a win in a way the same situation on Comet Catcher would not.
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General sea discussion