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MatchMaker Meta Meta Map Mapping

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Date Editor Before After
3/31/2018 10:28:48 PMSErankGodde before revert after revert
3/31/2018 9:07:59 PMSErankGodde before revert after revert
3/31/2018 9:06:18 PMSErankGodde before revert after revert
3/31/2018 9:04:58 PMSErankGodde before revert after revert
Before After
1 So in continuation from this battlethread http://zero-k. info/Battles/Detail/492211, I thought we would discuss and perhaps map out the meta of metas on maps in Zero-K. 1 So in continuation from this battlethread http://zero-k. info/Battles/Detail/492211 , I thought we would discuss and perhaps map out the meta of metas on maps in Zero-K.
2 \n 2 \n
3 So first we must ask ourselves what good gameplay in Zero-K is, before we can answer what maps should be preferred over others for ranked 1v1 play. 3 So first we must ask ourselves what good gameplay in Zero-K is, before we can answer what maps should be preferred over others for ranked 1v1 play.
4 \n 4 \n
5 Some potential criteria: 5 Some potential criteria:
6 Diverse strategic options 6 Diverse strategic options
7 Starting factory diversity 7 Starting factory diversity
8 Transitional gameplay 8 Transitional gameplay
9 Macro focus 9 Macro focus
10 Micro focus 10 Micro focus
11 Focused gameplay 11 Focused gameplay
12 Well defined meta 12 Well defined meta
13 Variety 13 Variety
14 \n 14 \n
15 Some of these criteria are somewhat conflicting. 15 Some of these criteria are somewhat conflicting.
16 I for example, like flat maps that promote raider gameplay which have focused gameplay on expansion(macro) and raiding(micro), and a pretty well defined meta, but raider maps typically lack transitional gameplay as the game is often decided by the raider phase and the strategic options aren't that diverse in terms of unit choices, starting factories and transitions in gameplay. However, Zero-K balance in general have nerfed raider gameplay and especially Rovers as Scorchers and Ravagers aren't quite as dominant as they used to be. 16 I for example, like flat maps that promote raider gameplay which have focused gameplay on expansion(macro) and raiding(micro), and a pretty well defined meta, but raider maps typically lack transitional gameplay as the game is often decided by the raider phase and the strategic options aren't that diverse in terms of unit choices, starting factories and transitions in gameplay. However, Zero-K balance in general have nerfed raider gameplay and especially Rovers as Scorchers and Ravagers aren't quite as dominant as they used to be.
17 \n 17 \n
18 While a well defined meta might initially seem bad for diverse strategic options and variety, the opposite(an undefined meta) simply means that the gameplay on that map is unexplored and that the meta might eventually devolve into boring gameplay. 18 While a well defined meta might initially seem bad for diverse strategic options and variety, the opposite(an undefined meta) simply means that the gameplay on that map is unexplored and that the meta might eventually devolve into boring gameplay.
19 However, exploring an undefined meta is still enjoyable to me. 19 However, exploring an undefined meta is still enjoyable to me.
20 \n 20 \n
21 A map that Fealthas complain about is [url=http://zero-k.info/Maps/Detail/55670]Vittra[/url]. I like Vittra even though I think there is a dominant starting factory(Spiders) and an initially dominant strategy(fast expansion and missile silo rush), but other players rarely if ever use this dominant strategy, so I just win by default most of the time. However, I think that the gameplay options would open up after reaching the stage where missilo silo is fielded by both players. Potentially, players can counter missile silo by simply spreading out the buildings so that Napalm missiles are unable to make cost. 21 A map that Fealthas complain about is [url=http://zero-k.info/Maps/Detail/55670]Vittra[/url]. I like Vittra even though I think there is a dominant starting factory(Spiders) and an initially dominant strategy(fast expansion and missile silo rush), but other players rarely if ever use this dominant strategy, so I just win by default most of the time. However, I think that the gameplay options would open up after reaching the stage where missilo silo is fielded by both players. Potentially, players can counter missile silo by simply spreading out the buildings so that Napalm missiles are unable to make cost.
22 However, if players simply realize that Spiders can easily outexpand the enemy by harassing, forcing out defenses and scouting incoming units with Fleas, countering incoming raiders with fast Venom riots or newly built light porc and transitioning into Recluse and Redbacks if necessary(Recluse is arguably the best skirmisher on this map), then I think we could have interesting Spider mirrors on this map with midgame transitions into Missile Silo, Firewalkers or maybe even airplay. 22 However, if players simply realize that Spiders can easily outexpand the enemy by harassing, forcing out defenses and scouting incoming units with Fleas, countering incoming raiders with fast Venom riots or newly built light porc and transitioning into Recluse and Redbacks if necessary(Recluse is arguably the best skirmisher on this map), then I think we could have interesting Spider mirrors on this map with midgame transitions into Missile Silo, Firewalkers or maybe even airplay.
23 \n 23 \n
24 I think transitional phases are interesting even if they are obligatory. There is still interplay in the timing of the transitions and the commitment of resources in the transition. 24 I think transitional phases are interesting even if they are obligatory. There is still interplay in the timing of the transitions and the commitment of resources in the transition.
25 If airplay or a missile silo transition is obligatory on some maps, I wouldn't mind it as it usually opens up more possibilities in gameplay. 25 If airplay or a missile silo transition is obligatory on some maps, I wouldn't mind it as it usually opens up more possibilities in gameplay.
26 \n 26 \n
27 Fealthas favourite map is [url=http://zero-k.info/Maps/Detail/14009]Hide and Seek[/url] which I somewhat dislike simply because it is a difficult map to play as it requires excessive micro to expand, harass and counterharass constantly. I think that Cloakybots are the dominant factory here as it lack any RPS that some factories have on this map. While both Jumpbots and Spiders would seem to be able to abuse the cliffs on this map, Jumpbots just cannot contend against Flea harassment if they end up facing Spiders while also having trouble defending against masses of Bandits if they face shieldbots. Spiders on the other hand struggle against mass raider play and especially Glaives which the fast but finicky Venoms have trouble dealing with reliably while slow Redbacks riots simply are too slow. The Amphbot raiders simply lack the DPS against light porc to be a threat like Glaives or Bandits. 27 Fealthas favourite map is [url=http://zero-k.info/Maps/Detail/14009]Hide and Seek[/url] which I somewhat dislike simply because it is a difficult map to play as it requires excessive micro to expand, harass and counterharass constantly. I think that Cloakybots are the dominant factory here as it lack any RPS that some factories have on this map. While both Jumpbots and Spiders would seem to be able to abuse the cliffs on this map, Jumpbots just cannot contend against Flea harassment if they end up facing Spiders while also having trouble defending against masses of Bandits if they face shieldbots. Spiders on the other hand struggle against mass raider play and especially Glaives which the fast but finicky Venoms have trouble dealing with reliably while slow Redbacks riots simply are too slow. The Amphbot raiders simply lack the DPS against light porc to be a threat like Glaives or Bandits.
28 Cloakbots vs Jumpbots are arguably balanced on this map but I would not like to contend with mass Bandit harassment with anything in the Jumpbot factory. 28 Cloakbots vs Jumpbots are arguably balanced on this map but I would not like to contend with mass Bandit harassment with anything in the Jumpbot factory.
29 That leaves Cloakbot VS Shieldbots where I would still give Cloakbots a slight advantage where the faster Glaives pose a much bigger threat in raider run-bys. With the support of some light porc, the skirmishing advantage that Bandits have against Glaives disappear. Bandits can still skirmish Glaives excellently in no-mans land and slightly contested territories though. However, Cloakbots can still support their ranks with the relatively fast Ronins which is pretty good at fending off and pushing back Outlaw and Thug parties. Sharpshooters/snipers and Thunderbirds makes Felons almost unusable on this map as the Cloakbot player can simply withdraw from lanes that are contested by a large shieldbot ball, and if the shieldball goes too far, it is easy to defend against with Snipers or disarming the shieldball with a Thunderbird and running in with Glaives and Ronins. 29 That leaves Cloakbot VS Shieldbots where I would still give Cloakbots a slight advantage where the faster Glaives pose a much bigger threat in raider run-bys. With the support of some light porc, the skirmishing advantage that Bandits have against Glaives disappear. Bandits can still skirmish Glaives excellently in no-mans land and slightly contested territories though. However, Cloakbots can still support their ranks with the relatively fast Ronins which is pretty good at fending off and pushing back Outlaw and Thug parties. Sharpshooters/snipers and Thunderbirds makes Felons almost unusable on this map as the Cloakbot player can simply withdraw from lanes that are contested by a large shieldbot ball, and if the shieldball goes too far, it is easy to defend against with Snipers or disarming the shieldball with a Thunderbird and running in with Glaives and Ronins.
30 Thunderbird advantage also goes to cloakbots as the faster Glaives can run down disarmed Bandits while Ronins can also keep up with the slower shieldbot units. 30 Thunderbird advantage also goes to cloakbots as the faster Glaives can run down disarmed Bandits while Ronins can also keep up with the slower shieldbot units.
31 I only dislike map this map because it is challenging. I always feel like I can't keep up with everything. 31 I only dislike map this map because it is challenging. I always feel like I can't keep up with everything.
32 Hide and Seek could still pose as the archetype of good gameplay in 1v1 Zero-K I think. Raider run-bys are always threatening unless the enemy makes excessive amounts of defences. There are several transition phases in a good game on Hide and Seek such as transitioning into skirmishers, assaults, air, eco and defense. 32 Hide and Seek could still pose as the archetype of good gameplay in 1v1 Zero-K I think. Raider run-bys are always threatening unless the enemy makes excessive amounts of defences. There are several transition phases in a good game on Hide and Seek such as transitioning into skirmishers, assaults, air, eco and defense.
33 However, this isn't Starcraft where we have to balance the maps for 3 different races and 6 different match-ups. We don't have to limit ourselves to a strict map formula just because some players like certain types of gameplay. All symmetrical maps in Zero-K are balanced as both players have the same options. 33 However, this isn't Starcraft where we have to balance the maps for 3 different races and 6 different match-ups. We don't have to limit ourselves to a strict map formula just because some players like certain types of gameplay. All symmetrical maps in Zero-K are balanced as both players have the same options.
34 Now, it can be argued that all maps should have several viable starting factories in the same vein that all the 3 races in Starcraft have to be viable on a competitive map. 34 Now, it can be argued that all maps should have several viable starting factories in the same vein that all the 3 races in Starcraft have to be viable on a competitive map.
35 However, I think it is fine if some maps just have 1 viable starting factory. 35 However, I think it is fine if some maps just have 1 viable starting factory.
36 Why shouldn't the map designer be able to design maps specifically for certain factories or certain kinds of gameplay in mind? 36 Why shouldn't the map designer be able to design maps specifically for certain factories or certain kinds of gameplay in mind?
37 \n 37 \n
38 I even think that 1v1 metal games on maps like [url=http://zero-k.info/Maps/Detail/7600]Metal Heck[/url] or even [url=http://zero-k.info/Maps/Detail/8321]Mini_SuperSpeedMetal_Wide[/url] are interesting. 38 I even think that 1v1 metal games on maps like [url=http://zero-k.info/Maps/Detail/7600]Metal Heck[/url] or even [url=http://zero-k.info/Maps/Detail/8321]Mini_SuperSpeedMetal_Wide[/url] are interesting.
39 I remember playing a series of games on Metal Heck against Drone and they were pretty fun and interesting. Drone is arguably a better Metal map player than I am. However, Metal maps plays hugely different from the rest of Zero-K maps to the point that you could say that Metal maps is a completely different game from the rest of Zero-K. It is much less about controlling territory, raiding and micromanagement but rather quickly transitioning between different phases and assessing the opponents transitions and timing attacks. Personally I wouldn't mind a map like Metal Heck in the 1v1 MatchMaker map pool. 39 I remember playing a series of games on Metal Heck against Drone and they were pretty fun and interesting. Drone is arguably a better Metal map player than I am. However, Metal maps plays hugely different from the rest of Zero-K maps to the point that you could say that Metal maps is a completely different game from the rest of Zero-K. It is much less about controlling territory, raiding and micromanagement but rather quickly transitioning between different phases and assessing the opponents transitions and timing attacks. Personally I wouldn't mind a map like Metal Heck in the 1v1 MatchMaker map pool.
40 \n 40 \n
41 The gameplay that the MatchMaker map pool promotes is up to us and personally I like varied gameplay. Small maps, big maps, macro maps, micro maps, air maps, ship maps, metal maps. All is appreciated by Goddes love. 41 The gameplay that the MatchMaker map pool promotes is up to us, and personally I like varied gameplay. Small maps, big maps, macro maps, micro maps, air maps, ship maps, metal maps. All is appreciated by Goddes love.