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[b]TLDR[/b]: @Anarchid spends approximately 14:00 to 21:00 using their faster army to intentionally enter battles in which the opposing army costs significantly more than their own. They then spend the last 10 minutes doing weird stuff and losing on attrition.
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[b]TLDR[/b]: @Anarchid spends approximately 14:00 to 21:00 using their faster army to intentionally enter battles in which the opposing army costs significantly more than their own. They then spend the last 10 minutes doing weird stuff and losing on attrition.
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https://i.imgur.com/sLqDSiW.png
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https://i.imgur.com/sLqDSiW.png
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At around 15:10 he attacks with 850 metal in raiders (plus a heavily damaged Cyclops) into a defending force of 5250 metal. It would be ludicrous if 1/3 the cost of a Cyclops in standard ground troop could come out ahead against two Cyclopes.
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At around 15:10 he attacks with 850 metal in raiders (plus a heavily damaged Cyclops) into a defending force of 5250 metal. It would be ludicrous if 1/3 the cost of a Cyclops in standard ground troop could come out ahead against two Cyclopes.
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https://i.imgur.com/QyyEYsu.png
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https://i.imgur.com/QyyEYsu.png
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Here it is again. In this case the 1000 metal in raiders actually killed a low health Cyclops before they all died. This is about as good as can be hoped for. @Anarchid keeps throwing small armies into a growing force of repairing Cyclopes.
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Here it is again. In this case the 1000 metal in raiders actually killed a low health Cyclops before they all died. This is about as good as can be hoped for. @Anarchid keeps throwing small armies into a growing force of repairing Cyclopes.
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https://i.imgur.com/j2WCJL0.png
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https://i.imgur.com/j2WCJL0.png
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Look at what this behaviour does for attrition.
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Look at what this behaviour does for attrition.
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https://i.imgur.com/qKbPp5x.png
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https://i.imgur.com/qKbPp5x.png
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A
big
battle,
perhaps
the
final
one.
@Anarchid
attacks
a
9000
metal
force
of
Cyclopes
and
turrets
with
3000
metal
in
raiders
and
a
Cyclops
as
backup.
They
also
have
a
Grizzly
but
it
is
far
out
of
position.
The
fight
is
effectively
5000
vs.
9000.
@Anarchid
kills
a
Cyclops,
at
the
cost
of
their
raiders,
which
is
a
trade
of
3000
for
2200.
This
is
quite
a
good
trade
considering
the
initial
forces.
@Fealthas
has
three
Cyclops
remaining
so,
when
they
gather
some
reinforcements,
clean
up
the
remaining
enemy
forces.
They
then
push
in
and
kill
a
few
more
Grizzlies
which
were
trickling
into
the
front.
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13 |
A
big
battle,
perhaps
the
final
one.
@Anarchid
attacks
a
9000
metal
force
of
Cyclopes
and
turrets
with
3000
metal
in
raiders
and
a
Cyclops
as
backup.
They
also
have
a
Grizzly
but
it
is
far
out
of
position.
The
fight
is
effectively
5000
vs.
9000.
@Anarchid
kills
a
Cyclops,
at
the
cost
of
their
raiders,
which
is
a
trade
of
3000
for
2200.
This
is
quite
a
good
trade
considering
the
initial
forces.
@Fealthas
has
three
Cyclops
remaining
so
can,
along
with
some
reinforcements,
push
and
clean
up
the
remaining
enemy
forces.
They
pick
off
a
Cyclops
and
two
Grizzlies.
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About 22:00 onward has @Anarchid attempt weird counters (Ultimatum, Dominatrix) when they have already thoroughly lost on attrition. It is as if @Anarchid thought Cyclops costs only 1000 metal and planed their earlier engagements accordingly. They got to choose when and where to fight and kept taking poor fights. I'm having a hard time drawing conclusions on Cyclops balance when such poor attempts are made to counter it.
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About 22:00 onward has @Anarchid attempt weird counters (Ultimatum, Dominatrix) when they have already thoroughly lost on attrition. It is as if @Anarchid thought Cyclops costs only 1000 metal and planed their earlier engagements accordingly. They got to choose when and where to fight and kept taking poor fights. I'm having a hard time drawing conclusions on Cyclops balance when such poor attempts are made to counter it.
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This is perhaps a problem of intuition and slippery slope. One Cyclops is 17 Scorchers but it looks a lot smaller than 17 Scorchers. This many Scorchers would easily kill a Cyclops and many would survive, marking a win on attrition. Even taking the factory switch into account @Anarchid could have had ten Scorchers and two Darts. Instead they attacked at 15:10 with a bit more than half that.
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This is perhaps a problem of intuition and slippery slope. One Cyclops is 17 Scorchers but it looks a lot smaller than 17 Scorchers. This many Scorchers would easily kill a Cyclops and many would survive, marking a win on attrition. Even taking the factory switch into account @Anarchid could have had ten Scorchers and two Darts. Instead they attacked at 15:10 with a bit more than half that.
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I have seen many cases of large units winning just because attempts to counter it fail to remember a basic rule of strategy: Avoid taking poor fights. Army cost is generally a decent stand-in for army power. People tend to underestimate the cost of large units, so large units tend to get fed. Perhaps models are due for a rescale, but Cyclops is about as large as reasonable without an extra movetype. Models also affect balance simply because I like to have hitvolumes match models.
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I have seen many cases of large units winning just because attempts to counter it fail to remember a basic rule of strategy: Avoid taking poor fights. Army cost is generally a decent stand-in for army power. People tend to underestimate the cost of large units, so large units tend to get fed. Perhaps models are due for a rescale, but Cyclops is about as large as reasonable without an extra movetype. Models also affect balance simply because I like to have hitvolumes match models.
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Perhaps the intuition issue would be solved with a cluster detection overlay that detects armies and displays their cost. Nobody would take this fight if it was abundantly clear that the enemy force costs more than 5x their own.
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Perhaps the intuition issue would be solved with a cluster detection overlay that detects armies and displays their cost. Nobody would take this fight if it was abundantly clear that the enemy force costs more than 5x their own.
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https://i.imgur.com/hqvkjGy.png
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https://i.imgur.com/hqvkjGy.png
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Such a widget would confuse new players so I wouldn't enable it by default, if someone were to make it. However I think it would be useful for learning or experienced players to train valuation intuition.
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Such a widget would confuse new players so I wouldn't enable it by default, if someone were to make it. However I think it would be useful for learning or experienced players to train valuation intuition.
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B546363 2 on Eye of Horus v13 (Multiplayer)