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I forget the conversation but assume that the topic was Scallop in sea.
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I forget the conversation but assume that the topic was Scallop in sea.
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You should rewatch the replay because I can't say that I agree with your summary of the game. It could be easy to miss all the sea combat at the bottom of the map from where you were. This is what I see.
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You should rewatch the replay because I can't say that I agree with your summary of the game. It could be easy to miss all the sea combat at the bottom of the map from where you were. This is what I see.
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You and @terve886 fight one low-rank amph player and almost one ship player. @recneps makes Ships fairly quickly for the average speed of the game and fights against three players (of varying effectiveness) for a lot of the game. One is the hovercraft player (that sometimes pokes north), one is a gunships player, and one is a Tank plopper that decided to porc and island.
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You and @terve886 fight one low-rank amph player and almost one ship player. @recneps makes Ships fairly quickly for the average speed of the game and fights against three players (of varying effectiveness) for a lot of the game. One is the hovercraft player (that sometimes pokes north), one is a gunships player, and one is a Tank plopper that decided to porc and island.
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* You were fighting sea with even resources and a rank advantage. Your opponents frequently suicided lone units into larger Scallop armies.
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* You were fighting sea with even resources and a rank advantage. Your opponents frequently suicided lone units into larger Scallop armies.
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* Your land plops (two, not four, since you never make any land units with the shieldbot factory) switched to sea factories fairly quickly relative to the expansion skill of the rest of the game.
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* Your land plops (two, not four, since you never make any land units with the shieldbot factory) switched to sea factories fairly quickly relative to the expansion skill of the rest of the game.
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* The ship opponent helped other fronts, with an early Envoy sent south to kill one of your 'land' allies Ship factories, and a Hunter raid later to kill other 'land' allies forces.
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* The ship opponent helped other fronts, with an early Envoy sent south to kill one of your 'land' allies Ship factories, and a Hunter raid later to kill other 'land' allies forces.
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* Your army seemed to be too slow to stop south from falling.
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* Your army seemed to be too slow to stop south from falling.
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* Both sides had about equal plane support and about equal new player impact.
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* Both sides had about equal plane support and about equal new player impact.
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I would say the most effective player was @recneps for holding off multiple players South from fairly early on. There are some good Scallop matchup examples in the game but if you just look at it in terms of economy and rank investment I don't think you and @terve886 significantly overperformed due to them.
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I would say the most effective player was @recneps for holding off multiple players South from fairly early on. There are some good Scallop matchup examples in the game but if you just look at it in terms of economy and rank investment I don't think you and @terve886 significantly overperformed due to them.
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I'm not saying that Lobster Scallop is not too good, and shields have been problematic for underwater combat for a long time. Here is why I am not doing anything about it at the moment:
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I'm not saying that Lobster Scallop is not too good, and shields have been problematic for underwater combat for a long time. Here is why I am not doing anything about it at the moment:
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* Amph is very easy to accidentally delete since it is slow and has no solid artillery.
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* Amph is very easy to accidentally delete since it is slow and has no solid artillery.
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* It seems reasonable for slower factories to eventually win locally.
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* It seems reasonable for slower factories to eventually win locally.
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* Sea is hard as there are new interactions to learn. I can easily imagine something feeling a bit too powerful when used against people who are inexperienced with sea.
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* I have not seen it be clearly way too good.
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* I have not seen it be clearly way too good.
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* The problem may be best resolved by tweaking underwater shield interactions, and I don't want to pay that price yet.
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* The problem may be best resolved by tweaking underwater shield interactions, and I don't want to pay that price yet.
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* Nerfing Amph here seems like the kind of change that would remove interesting diversity from the game. Usually you'd want to nerf to stop something from suppressing the diversity in other areas.
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* Nerfing Amph here seems like the kind of change that would remove interesting diversity from the game. Usually you'd want to nerf to stop something from suppressing the diversity in other areas.
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B866445 12 on SapphireShores_V2.2 (Multiplayer)