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[q]Also, calling Archer a riot-raider is pretty inaccurate when it has a mere 1% speed advantage over Ogre.[/q]
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[q]Also, calling Archer a riot-raider is pretty inaccurate when it has a mere 1% speed advantage over Ogre.[/q]
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Guess it's just an extremely cheap and fast riot then.
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Guess it's just an extremely cheap and fast riot then.
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[q]The Spider matchups are in a similar position. Spider vs. Hover is extremely rare, and Spider has lost all three of its 2500+ games against Hover on Mechadansonia over the past three months[/q]
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[q]The Spider matchups are in a similar position. Spider vs. Hover is extremely rare, and Spider has lost all three of its 2500+ games against Hover on Mechadansonia over the past three months[/q]
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@PRO_rANDY very recently trashed my hover on Mech. On reflection, I'm almost certain that with the venom/recluse composition he used, hover cannot make a response.
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@PRO_rANDY very recently trashed my hover on Mech. On reflection, I'm almost certain that with the venom/recluse composition he used, hover cannot make a response.
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Having played with the full map pool in the pro host for a while now and re-visited a lot of old classic maps such as zed, obsidian, gecko isles, onyx cauldron, living lands and so on... I can honestly say that the RPS problem doesn't go away, it just manifests in slight variations. Worse still, it's surprising how few of the maps are actually compelling and worthwhile 1v1 experiences. So what would we rotate out and back in without things going stale again?
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Having played with the full map pool in the pro host for a while now and re-visited a lot of old classic maps such as zed, obsidian, gecko isles, onyx cauldron, living lands and so on... I can honestly say that the RPS problem doesn't go away, it just manifests in slight variations. Worse still, it's surprising how few of the maps are actually compelling and worthwhile 1v1 experiences. So what would we rotate out and back in without things going stale again?
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On that note, I really want to do another batch of maps but the one thing holding me back after that last gargantuan effort is the realization that throwing more maps at ZK doesn't create a 1v1 experience on it's own. There's more to the formula than that, and a big part (outside of ladder/league ideas) is unit balance.
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On that note, I really want to do another batch of maps but the one thing holding me back after that last gargantuan effort is the realization that throwing more maps at ZK doesn't create a 1v1 experience on it's own. There's more to the formula than that, and a big part (outside of ladder/league ideas) is unit balance.
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Here's an example of what I mean. Take Sparkles Reef. When that map came out, archer was OP as all hell and it took a stupid amount of collective friction to get that toned to something more reasonable (if still wonky AF). Soon thereafter, we're in a new balance situation that's even more of a hard meta: Siren/envoy dominance. Hover doesn't even EXIST on water currently. As a result, a lot of people hate playing Sparkle's Reef no matter how nice it looks. How can the map I have put that much effort into be taken seriously if the units that are meant to occupy it still require a little more attention? It wouldn't even be difficult to tone siren down.
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Here's an example of what I mean. Take Sparkles Reef. When that map came out, archer was OP as all hell and it took a stupid amount of collective friction to get that toned to something more reasonable (if still wonky AF). Soon thereafter, we're in a new balance situation that's even more of a hard meta: Siren/envoy dominance. Hover doesn't even EXIST on water currently. As a result, a lot of people hate playing Sparkle's Reef no matter how nice it looks. How can the map I have put that much effort into be taken seriously if the units that are meant to occupy it still require a little more attention? It wouldn't even be difficult to tone siren down.
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The only map I'm even remotely pleased with the lack of hard meta emerging upon is Scaryland. Every other map that came out in the 2020 update is hampered by terrain modulated fac-rps / OU unit interactions:
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The only map I'm even remotely pleased with the lack of hard meta emerging upon is Scaryland. Every other map that came out in the 2020 update is hampered by terrain modulated fac-rps / OU unit interactions:
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* Cobalt dream: Kodachi/Welder spam/porc
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* Cobalt dream: Kodachi/Welder spam/porc
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* Desert Rumble: Pyro or fencer spam
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* Desert Rumble: Pyro or fencer spam
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* Mechadansoia: Was GS, now is spider thanks to OP venom.
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* Mechadansoia: Was GS, now is spider thanks to OP venom.
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* Jurassic sands: Daggerspam -> lances or amph
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* Jurassic sands: Daggerspam -> lances or amph
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* Prestige: Spider edges or amph mid
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* Prestige: Spider edges or amph mid
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* Anvilwood: Shields or tanks for safe reclaim. Maybe upcomm if vs shields.
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* Anvilwood: Shields or tanks for safe reclaim. Maybe upcomm if vs shields.
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And most of these are maps that were designed with a mind towards factory flexibility. I'm not convinced it can be done through map design alone, which is why I'm so eager to get your buy-in on balance and RPS issues coming from the 1v1 scene. @RyMarq made a great effort to get to the bottom of a lot of it recently too but again without you backing the effort, we're just squandering people's investment where we could be leveraging it. If you can relate to what I'm saying and want me to do another round of maps, meet me half way.
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And most of these are maps that were designed with a mind towards factory flexibility. I'm not convinced it can be done through map design alone, which is why I'm so eager to get your buy-in on balance and RPS issues coming from the 1v1 scene. @RyMarq made a great effort to get to the bottom of a lot of it recently too but again without you backing the effort, we're just squandering people's investment where we could be leveraging it. If you can relate to what I'm saying and want me to do another round of maps, meet me half way.
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TL;DR: Happy to make maps if you're happy to facilitate changes based on feedback.
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Zero-K v1.9.1.0 - Mod Page and Slower Kodachi