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For the purposes of this discussion I am going to refer to an essay by David Sirlin:
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For the purposes of this discussion I am going to refer to an essay by David Sirlin:
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https://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub
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https://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub
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(Sirlin's presentation here is pretty blunt, so I want to emphasise I am not calling anybody in particular a scrub here.)
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(Sirlin's presentation here is pretty blunt, so I want to emphasise I am not calling anybody in particular a scrub here.)
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A few particular quotes I will pull out:
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A few particular quotes I will pull out:
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[quote]A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win.[/quote]
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[quote]A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win.[/quote]
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[quote]the scrub labels a wide variety of tactics and situations “cheap.” ... Nearly anything you do that ends up making you win is a prime candidate for being called cheap.[/quote]
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[quote]the scrub labels a wide variety of tactics and situations “cheap.” ... Nearly anything you do that ends up making you win is a prime candidate for being called cheap.[/quote]
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[quote]A common call of the scrub is to cry that the kind of play in which one tries to win at all costs is “boring” or “not fun.”[/quote]
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[quote]A common call of the scrub is to cry that the kind of play in which one tries to win at all costs is “boring” or “not fun.”[/quote]
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[b]By design, Revenant is a unit that punishes scrubly play[/b]. If it is nerfed, it will either be nerfed into uselessness or it will still be a unit that punishes scrubly play, it will just do it less.
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[b]By design, Revenant is a unit that punishes scrubly play[/b]. If it is nerfed, it will either be nerfed into uselessness or it will still be a unit that punishes scrubly play, it will just do it less.
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To give you an example, a replay in which I was pretty brutally demolished by, among other things, a revenant:
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To give you an example, a replay in which I was pretty brutally demolished by, among other things, a revenant:
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@B1937886
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@B1937886
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A scrub might look at this game and think that how the Revenant situation played out was 'unfun'. I, trying not to be a scrub, look at this game and think that I overextended in a way that might have been salvageable with a little more help from my teammates, but went terribly wrong in the absence of that help. A learnable moment.
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A scrub might look at this game and think that how the Revenant situation played out was 'unfun'. I, trying not to be a scrub, look at this game and think that I overextended in a way that might have been salvageable with a little more help from my teammates, but went terribly wrong in the absence of that help. A learnable moment.
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[spoiler]If you watch the replay you might well blame my collapse on the ground armies rather than the Revenant. I chose this replay anyway because I in fact don't have very many games where I have been trashed by primarily Revenant. Hmm.[/spoiler]
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[spoiler]If you watch the replay you might well blame my collapse on the ground armies rather than the Revenant. I chose this replay anyway because I in fact don't have very many games where I have been trashed by primarily Revenant. Hmm.[/spoiler]
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In order to not be scrubly against Revenant, I think it's important to think about a few things:
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In order to not be scrubly against Revenant, I think it's important to think about a few things:
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* Where should I plop my factory? Is it near cliffs Revenant can abuse?
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* Where should I plop my factory? Is it near cliffs Revenant can abuse?
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* Do I have, or am I near to an ally with, good raiders or other tools for dealing with Revenant?
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* Do I have, or am I near to an ally with, good raiders or other tools for dealing with Revenant?
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* Am I walking my Commander somewhere dangerous? Does it have an appropriate escort for where it is going?
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* Am I walking my Commander somewhere dangerous? Does it have an appropriate escort for where it is going?
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A scrub wants to answer these questions with "wherever and whatever I want, in the first few minutes". To beat Revenant reliably I think we have to be better than that.
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Now after all this, it may well be the case that it is better for the game that Revenant should be weaker. But I for one would like to see further serious stabs at playing around and against it.
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Now after all this, it may well be the case that it is better for the game that Revenant should be weaker. But I for one would like to see further serious stabs at playing around and against it.
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Revenant Discussion Thread