| 1 |
My 2c:
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1 |
My 2c:
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| 2 |
Sea is bound to be less interesting tha land due to terrain (or rather, lack thereof). The surface is always flat and 99% of existing water maps also have flat oceanfloors.
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2 |
Sea is bound to be less interesting tha land due to terrain (or rather, lack thereof). The surface is always flat and 99% of existing water maps also have flat oceanfloors.
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| 3 |
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3 |
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| 4 |
Current sea isn't interesting partially due to Duck monoculture. Amph has no real underwater counter to Duck (apart from own Ducks, but that obviously doesn't count). Since there are only 2 amphs that can fire underwater (Duck & Scallop) there can be no RPS triangle. Therefore, some third amph needs to be able to fight submerged. Now, Archer overlaps with Scallop on land (riot), seems kinda crappy when floating (low range, immobile, targetable by surface weapons) and is useless underwater (can't even shoot). Why not make Archer the underwater Duck counter?
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4 |
Current sea isn't interesting partially due to Duck monoculture. Amph has no real underwater counter to Duck (apart from own Ducks, but that obviously doesn't count). Since there are only 2 amphs that can fire underwater (Duck & Scallop) there can be no RPS triangle. Therefore, some third amph needs to be able to fight submerged. Now, Archer overlaps with Scallop on land (riot), seems kinda crappy when floating (low range, immobile, targetable by surface weapons) and is useless underwater (can't even shoot). Why not make Archer the underwater Duck counter?
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| 5 |
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5 |
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| 6 |
Considering Archer has water-based weaponry and has a water tank, I came up with two ideas:
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6 |
Considering Archer has water-based weaponry and has a water tank, I came up with two ideas:
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| 7 |
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7 |
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| 8 |
1) Make it create waves in the water, Outlaw style.
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8 |
1) Make it create waves in the water, Outlaw style.
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| 9 |
+ completes the underwater RPS triangle
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9 |
+ completes the underwater RPS triangle
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| 10 |
+ gives an obsolete unit a role
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10 |
+ gives an obsolete unit a role
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| 11 |
+ easy to implement (steal Outlaw)
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11 |
+ easy to implement (steal Outlaw)
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| 12 |
+ can have different effects to Outlaw (dunno, prolly impulse like the land guns?) to make it unique instead of an Outlaw clone
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12 |
+ can have different effects to Outlaw (dunno, prolly impulse like the land guns?) to make it unique instead of an Outlaw clone
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| 13 |
+ somewhat interesting (Outlaw mechanic doesn't exist in the sea yet)
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13 |
+ somewhat interesting (Outlaw mechanic doesn't exist in the sea yet)
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| 14 |
+ fluff-wise makes sense
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14 |
+ fluff-wise makes sense
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| 15 |
+ could be made to work with the water tank mechanic
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15 |
+ could be made to work with the water tank mechanic
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| 16 |
-/+ won't affect land (I don't want to touch land but apparently Amph kinda sucks there)
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16 |
-/+ won't affect land (I don't want to touch land but apparently Amph kinda sucks there)
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| 17 |
- affects surface balance somewhat - at low depth and when floating up waves can reach sufrace
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17 |
- affects surface balance somewhat - at low depth and when floating up waves can reach sufrace
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| 18 |
- Archer already has interesting mechanics (the water tank)
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18 |
- Archer already has interesting mechanics (the water tank)
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| 19 |
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19 |
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| 20 |
2) Give it the ability to "overload water tank" or something, basically a self-d dgun.
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20 |
2) Give it the ability to "overload water tank" or something, basically a self-d dgun.
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| 21 |
+ completes the underwater RPS triangle
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21 |
+ completes the underwater RPS triangle
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| 22 |
+ gives an obsolete unit a role
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22 |
+ gives an obsolete unit a role
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| 23 |
+ can work with the tank mechanic (damage proportional to tank: makes sure it's at full power underwater for anti-Duck while limiting how it affects land)
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23 |
+ can work with the tank mechanic (damage proportional to tank: makes sure it's at full power underwater for anti-Duck while limiting how it affects land)
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| 24 |
+ can be made to also work outside of ability on normal death/self-D if needed
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24 |
+ can be made to also work outside of ability on normal death/self-D if needed
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| 25 |
+ fluff-wise makes sense
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25 |
+ fluff-wise makes sense
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| 26 |
+/- affects surface (through use while floating) and land but in an interesting way (creates a decision: use as a bomb for burst damage and lose the unit, or keep shooting waterjet for DPS and drain the tank?)
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26 |
+/- affects surface (through use while floating) and land but in an interesting way (creates a decision: use as a bomb for burst damage and lose the unit, or keep shooting waterjet for DPS and drain the tank?)
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| 27 |
+/- unit that is both a dedicated kamikaze and a normal damage dealer is unprecedented (well, there's Panther self-D that can be used as an improvised Tick but that's not its dedicated role)
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27 |
+/- unit that is both a dedicated kamikaze and a normal damage dealer is unprecedented (well, there's Panther self-D that can be used as an improvised Tick but that's not its dedicated role)
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| 28 |
- cannot be fully automated so is micro sink. Probably an on/off toggle for self-D autocast would be good enough for that purpose though
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28 |
- cannot be fully automated so is micro sink. Probably an on/off toggle for self-D autocast would be good enough for that purpose though
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| 29 |
- Archer already has interesting mechanics
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29 |
- Archer already has interesting mechanics
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| 30 |
- harder to implement
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30 |
- harder to implement
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| 31 |
\n
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31 |
\n
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| 32 |
I
have
become
Neon,
poster
of
terrible
ideas.
.
.
anyway,
as
you
can
see,
both
ideas
have
a
ton
of
downsides,
but
the
main
upside
is
that
an
existing
unit
is
given
a
role
in
a
domain
where
it's
otherwise
useless
without
the
need
for
a
new
one.
@RyMarq
wants
to
introduce
a
new
dedicated
anti-Duck
amph
(
most
likely
Limpet-like)
:
|
32 |
I
have
become
Neon,
poster
of
terrible
ideas.
.
.
anyway,
as
you
can
see,
both
ideas
have
a
ton
of
downsides,
but
the
main
upside
is
that
an
existing
unit
is
given
a
role
in
a
domain
where
it's
otherwise
useless
without
the
need
for
a
new
one.
@RyMarq
wants
to
introduce
a
new
dedicated
anti-Duck
amph
(
most
likely
Limpet-like)
which
is
probably
more
elegant
but
lacks
this
upside:
|
| 33 |
+ completes the underwater RPS triangle
|
33 |
+ completes the underwater RPS triangle
|
| 34 |
+ assets (model etc.) already exist (Limpet) so super easy to implement
|
34 |
+ assets (model etc.) already exist (Limpet) so super easy to implement
|
| 35 |
+ leaves other amphs' balance intact
|
35 |
+ leaves other amphs' balance intact
|
| 36 |
+ can use effects not present on existing bombs (to be unique and interesting, and not just a swimming Roach) like disarm, impulse or slow (though slow started being kinda overused already)
|
36 |
+ can use effects not present on existing bombs (to be unique and interesting, and not just a swimming Roach) like disarm, impulse or slow (though slow started being kinda overused already)
|
| 37 |
+/- affects land
|
37 |
+/- affects land
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| 38 |
-
amph
already
has
roles
filled
on
land,
so
a
new
unit
might
introduce
obsolescence;
oceanfloor
bomb
will
also
be
useless
vs
ships
unless
it
also
floats
(
which
might
generally
be
a
good
idea,
but
then
it
makes
ships
even
worse
vs
amph)
|
38 |
-
amph
already
has
roles
filled
on
land,
so
a
new
unit
might
introduce
obsolescence;
an
oceanfloor
bomb
will
also
be
useless
vs
ships
unless
it
also
floats
(
which
might
generally
be
a
good
idea,
but
then
it
makes
ships
even
worse
vs
amph)
|
| 39 |
- bomb might be problematic to counter without changing other stuff: amph lacks accurate long-range weapons and it'd be able to be prematurely set off by sending a forward Duck, reversing the counter relationship
|
39 |
- bomb might be problematic to counter without changing other stuff: amph lacks accurate long-range weapons and it'd be able to be prematurely set off by sending a forward Duck, reversing the counter relationship
|
| 40 |
\n
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40 |
\n
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| 41 |
Having RPS is vital to an interesting gameplay because it requires you to mix units, counter, scout for enemy composition and react etc. instead of spam monoculture.
|
41 |
Having RPS is vital to an interesting gameplay because it requires you to mix units, counter, scout for enemy composition and react etc. instead of spam monoculture.
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Ways to make Sea Fun