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Title: MM 289: 1v1, Rank Singularity
Host: Nobody
Game version: Zero-K 1.8.4.2
Engine version: 104.0.1-1435-g79d77ca
Started: 59 days ago
Duration: 9 minutes
Players: 2
Bots: False
Mission: False
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Team 1
Chance of victory: 53.5%

CArankPetTurtle
Team 2
Chance of victory: 46.5%

USrankUltraGodzilla
Spectators
EErankAdminAnarchid
BArankjannarh

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59 days ago
Hover monospam, they said
+0 / -0

59 days ago
Usually heavy raiders have -speed, +dps, and +hp, like pyro.

Usually light raiders have +speed, -dps, and -hp, like bandit.

However not all units fit this description.

Kodachi: +speed, +dps, +hp, along with a retreat advantage, health regeneration, flame damage, massive los and it's weapon not being blocked by other units.
+0 / -0

59 days ago
pet didn't make a single bola

bola+scalpel crushes tank
+0 / -0

59 days ago
This brings up an entirely different problem of having a unit or units in a factory that counter another factory in the terrain it's designed for.
+0 / -0
Unfortuantely I don't see any effective way currently for tanks to fight hover well on most maps since they have no effective answer for bola+scalpel

Tanks only chance is to get lucky If they don't have a bola near a raid target but as soon as u see a koda they just need to spam bola and scalpels and they basically cant be attacked but can attack, its annoying coz I really don't wanna plop hover but everyone is doing it on all the flat maps.

Until they get bored of using it anyway

Tanks are just to expensive. The scalpel alone deters koda, ogre, and blitz, its quite annoying. Bola just makes the koda unable to raid and is just too strong in general, its slow is pretty ridiculous and its so cheap, the dmg is not bad while also having a good movement speed.
+0 / -0
Thy was old Kodachi removed? the long burn times made them really good counters to most raiders

a good kodachi used to be able to dominate the raider game with quality over quantity

new kodachi is just bad
+0 / -0
Because it was anti-smart on very many levels (i.e. it behaved stupid without manual control and it made the enemy units also behave stupid).

And then a few people discovered that they could double its range by half of its aoe - which amounted to about 150% range increase - by firing it at max range so that it would clip the enemies outside that range with aoe. Automatically.
+0 / -0
59 days ago
so it was improved by making it worse for the same price?
+0 / -0


59 days ago
Worse? Lol.
+0 / -0
quote:
Worse? Lol.


the ability to fire and forget on a mex to kill it is pretty strong no?

old koda could just run circles around a base killing soft targets all day
+0 / -0


58 days ago
A Flea can hide in a base all day and run over cliffs. It does not mean that Rover would want to swap Scorcher for a Flea.
+0 / -0
quote:
A Flea can hide in a base all day and run over cliffs. It does not mean that Rover would want to swap Scorcher for a Flea.


no but it would take a scorcher price leveler happily :D

im not saying old kodachi wast janky, it was, but it balanced out the tank lab by being the only unit that can affordably skirmish-raid on the cheap. now there is nothing in that lab that is a good skirmisher or a good raider (koda is killed by practically every other raider on fight)

and no a 900m ball of 3 blitz that you need to raid is not a good raid option
+0 / -0

58 days ago
Yet another time where what you're saying doesn't stand up to the experiences of the people actually in the loop, GBrankddaboqepp

Really would encourage you to get intimate with what's actually going on before making hard statements. Do we have to set up more example matches?
+0 / -0
GBrankDregs

im not saying new kodachi is a bad raider, im saying its just not a great one
im also saying that the old kodachi was much better at the job
+0 / -0


58 days ago
quote:
Do we have to set up more example matches?

Yes please
+1 / -0
if only we could have old kodachi vs new kodachi mirror XD

and i though the only conclusion we could reach from those matches is that im very rusty?


also i hate to say it but those example matches only served to solidify my understanding that outlaw is at best a utility unit now and at worst an end game fap unit that served no mainline purpose
+0 / -0
quote:
if only we could have old kodachi vs new kodachi mirror XD

This one is easy: new koda will win vs old koda in a head-on fight because it has actual DPS, not just funny sticky death-tag to which both of them would be immune cuz asbestos.

(asbestos causes cancer. There are two units in the game which have this ability and i feel like it's two more than there should be.)

quote:
and i though the only conclusion we could reach from those matches is that im very rusty?

Only if you lose. A sufficiently skewed balance (like Puppy that 2-hits a Blitz) erases the difference between me and Godde; surely it can erase that between you and Dregs.
+0 / -0
EErankAdminAnarchid we get it you beat SErankGodde with puppies, good job...

but not all crappy balance choices have the effect of making a unit overpowered. most changes result the unit being irrelevant in the grand scheme of things because it has no role (see blast wing).

when the answer to "how many of X are made in a game" trends towards 0 after balance change this is bad.

at the end of the day even if i fought GBrankDregs it would prove nothing if neither i or dregs do anything meaningful with kodachi
+0 / -0

58 days ago
I think that all raiders kinda perform around the same somewhat now, aka they seem to be very balanced towards eachother to the point where whoever has the cheaper ones will probabaly be at an advantage via numbers if microed properly.

All the rapid changes tho does lead to things becoming overlooked or somewhat ignored.
+0 / -0

58 days ago
If kodachi was bunk why would UG's ZK biography be made 80% out of them?

He even lovingly handed them down to ATOSTIC.

I personally can't stand kodachi raids, especially the old ones. Those were effortless, particularly on open maps. Just drive by the mexes, take a bit of llt damage and ride on back for a moment. Repeat. Ain't no shortage of micro time in the early game when they were most effective especially if the enemy has all resources spent defending so that arguement can implode.

You want my take on koda?

It toasts glaives, is cheap enough to be a real pain to spiders, and can be frustrating to handle with rovers. Shieldbots and hovers do fine. Amph also probably does fine but they ain't exactly competitive are they. I'm sure JJ do ok with cuntstubble and puppy.

Useful but prone to the whims of factory RPS just like anything else.
+1 / -0
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