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Sumo is pretty mutch usless

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11 years ago
The sumo has been changed for some time now and it is obviously that it is not working. The sumo is not worth bilding. Please change it back or change it in some other way becuae i miss having a hevy unit in the jj fac.
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agree.

but skuttle!
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11 years ago
I think it is like krow now still has its use, but doesnt mean if you build it you win. Attack retreat repair repeat.
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11 years ago
Except that all other heavies are better in that role.
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11 years ago
I totally agree!
it's dps sucks!
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11 years ago
Think of a new design and present it to the devs. It is no use just agreeing that it is unbalanced.
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11 years ago
And he doesnt have that cool effect when shooting (heatrays are cool). Give it back to him and make him cost little more.
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What if it could jump more often and do more damage? I say that would be epic. Rar'ing everyone :)
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players want* back the 2x heat ray
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11 years ago
Speak for yourself. I dont.
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11 years ago
Idea for new sumo design: Heavy support unit
Basic weapons slot: slow beams (preferably prioritizing air units), AoE disruptor shells would be even better but might be op
Secondary weapons slot: light AA (something like 2 Jethros in strength)
Support module: medium range anti nuke
Sumo jump (like now with perhaps 10-20% faster recharge)

This way it is no longer an assault and thus solves the jack overlap issue and becomes useful in a wide array of situations without being unstoppable on its own
We have a lot of attack heavies, I think one centered mainly on support might be worth trying out.
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I am thinking give it a Disruptor with a low RoF. This would require Moderators to keep the slow damage from decaying between shots, and the removal of the riot role would mean that using Firewalkers to screen against raiders and anti-heavies becomes a positive synergy. The Sumo would then be good against light assaults from ravager to reaper, as well as being anti-heavy in combination with moderators (which firewalkers suck at). Slow damage from Sumo and Moderator ensures the enemy stays in the fireball as long as possible and cannot close on the Firewalkers, while the slow allows the Sumo to retreat easily through the wall of fire, being one of the best retreat-repair heavies in the game this increases that focus.

The issue with it being anti-heavyis that the Jack and Skuttle are already excellent anti-heavy (though actually not great vs Ravager). If you want to field Firewalkers though, you cannot use the Skuttle. They have negative synergy.

The thing is, since the jump-bomb ability, which is 'cool' and 'unique', it's been somewhere between the Jack and the Firewalker.

The Firewalker has the AoE to take out the kind of light unit balls the Sumo is good against. The Jack has the HP and mobility to assault, walk through fire and jump right on top of enemies like the Sumo.

The heat-ray is a non-starter. It melts every kind of heavy at close range as well as being good vs raiders: and the jump makes closing range trivial + adds AoE vs raiders. You cannot have a riot/assault/anti-heavy.

Anyway, I really want a factories late-game comp to have positive synergy. Scythe/Sniper for example is phenomenal and just 'feels' right for the fac. The shieldball is the ultimate synergy death machine, focusing on the brute force and HP sharing of the factory.

The sumo was just 'spam sumos'. This sucked.
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11 years ago
How about make a Sumo deployable like crabe?

And give it a slow-grenade?
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11 years ago
How about wait till stable to see the new design?
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11 years ago
I'm sure this thread used to be longer...
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Skasi
11 years ago
Maybe you are confusing it with this one? Or maybe this one?
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Methinks: even with disruptor, everything about sumo keeps being just as awful. It can still goomba-stomp raiders while having assault hp, capacity to insta-disengage, and and a perfectly accurate gun; and if it isn't op, then that's because it's nerfed into boring oblivion.

Mein plan:

1) Turn Pyro into a purely raider/antiheavy rather than raider/riot/antiheavy it is now. Maybe with heatrays.
2) Completely abolish Jack and replace with a riot of same weight, possibly of that "blazing fire jumper" variety. Will require a model that looks like a cyborg raptor ninja viking, with flaming meteor hammer and horned helmet on fire, that menaces with spikes of fire.
3) Lower Sumo weight and repurpose it into a purely assault role with an assaulty weapon. Maybe lower jump AoE to make it more of a direct collision dgun anti-static thing, i.e, closer to what "goomba stomp" is. You dislike that Stinger, you compress that stinger.

The weakest link is the need for model in second point, because it's not like zk is swarming with talented artists (there are some! but they aren't that prolific) nor is spring an easy engine to do such things for.
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11 years ago
EErankAdminAnarchid - thinking along those lines, but without throwing out the existing units completely, instead swapping the role of the not-Jack and the Pyro:

1) Remove multi-hitting from flame weapons. Pyro is now a purely riot-raider instead of doing anti-heavy work.

2) Push the Jack further into your anti-assault/anti-heavy role. Reduce its weight, increase its alpha, maybe it's nerf its range (weaken vs raiders), up the DPS and speed a hair... other balance people can do this step better than I. Reducing its weight is the big one so you see more early-game Jacks. Basically, put the Jack into something halfway between a Ravager and a Scorcher.

3) Make your pure-assault Sumo.

Then there's a coherent lab. The rioty Pyro is weak on offense and taking down assaults (normally an important part of raiders) but it owns the raider-vs-raider game, while the Jack eats assaults for breakfast. Basically, Pyros take down raiders and skirms, Jacks take down assaults, light riots and light defenses.
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11 years ago
I do think Pyro needs to be split into two units, Jump factory is basically about spamming Pyro.

But why do your proposals remove the Jack? Particularly with a re-rolled pyro (unless it's re-rolled as an assault!) you need an assault unit under 2k cost. There is plenty of room for both the Sumo and the Jack in the factory as long as the Sumo is not a melee-range jumper.

Jumping 'on top' of buildings won't really work because buildings block... and you still have to worry about the main weapon and how it works.

Models are no longer a problem for us. We have enough floating around unused and can kitbash them easily.
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11 years ago
Could a single-target sumo not use engine physics to bounce the Sumo away if it failed to kill the target on the stomp? That is, Sumo jumps on building and lands if the building is destroyed, or simply bounces away to flop around like any other impulsed unit if all units in the landing zone have not been destroyed.

Of course, that impulse could easily result in the Sumo being stuck underwater or something else similarly useless.
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