New balance patch, and again stuff got nerfed/buffed more then 2 times Now outlaw is useless and sumo is op. Cause outlaw's dps was nerfed more then 2 times. And sumo's dps not only has huge dps buff, but also has extremely accurate weapons which can shoot planes. Now its even more op then it was with old heat rays(but for me it was not op, it was just fine) Why you dont listen to players who saying some unit need to be A LITTLE nerfed/buffed. But no. We are devs, we are cool, we shall not bother with small tweaks to balance, we just nerf/buff shit to beyond
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It's really too early to say anything concrete about current balance. That DPS nerf for outlaw was massive, but let's be honest, the old outlaw was quite ridonculous. You're a bit overestimating the outlaw nerf. DPS isn't everything - even a 0 DPS outlaw would still have decent utility due to it's slow effect.
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Yes, maybe outlaw is ok with its slow effect. But what you say about sumo? I think best way will bring back its old good heatrays. Also good thing about this patch, dirtbag nerf was just fine.
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I love outlaw, but it was OP for 250 metal. Slow damage, and 50 damage....20 damage seems reasonable, the slow damage is its main attribute now. Still Stronger then the moderator.
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i think curent outlaw is perfect try 1 outlaw, protected by a convict, and 5 bandits (for dps) this is epic it is perfect the balance of the outlaw is now good, and the shield lab is fine as it is(now that bandits dps bugg was fixed)
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Yeah I'm loving the current state of shieldbots too. About the sumo, I don't use it so I have no idea how good it is.
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pity, I loved the old OP outlaw with the slow moving waves! sumo lacks a niche, I dont understand what role the unit is meant to fill. a hit and run heavy would benefit from the limited ammo mechanic of the Archer. The archer does not benefit from this mechanic at all!
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I'm also very pleased with the Outlaw nerf. It was way too powerful for its cost, since its damage output is omnidirectional. The Outlaw still always damages everyone in range, regardless of how many units it faces (something that doesn't happen with directional weaponry), but at least it will cause less damage now.
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quote:
pity, I loved the old OP outlaw with the slow moving waves! |
agree, that outlaw was a bit op but was easily hardcountered by both ticks and roaches, so it was balanced. Now outlaw is fine but ticks/roaches hardcounter minishiledballs too much, so why would anyone make thug-outlaw combo if it has ridiculous dps and is more weak to crawling bombs?
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You could try making more Outlaw. Or putting the Outlaw out the front. You could even do raiders out the front like other factories.
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quote:
Cause outlaw's dps was nerfed more then 2 times. |
In theory but in praxis the first change somehow was a buff. Before one could kill outlaw with one scorcher by driving straight at it. After the change that did not work anymore. I never understood the problem of heatray sumo. For example in this thread http://zero-k.info/Forum/Thread/4946 : quote:
The sumo was just 'spam sumos'. This sucked. |
Dont think I ever saw someone spamming sumos. IMO where it would be supereffective is games with lots of light units (LV lab, missle bots, those stuff) and suddendly one player somehow manages to get a sumo, which has multitudes the HP of everything else currently running around. The first Sumo could make big impact, just like switch to air when enemy has no AA. Felt okay to me even when I lost to it. Only stupid was everytime I wanted to EMP a Sumo with these silly cloaked EMP-bots I had forgotten that one will not do - needs 4 or so, otherwise no effect at all..
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quote:
You could even do raiders out the front like other factories. |
 the above imige is less absurd then that statmen... raiders[shakes head]
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Shieldballs have to rely more on bandits now. You don't need to clump up the entire ball. A bit of a spread out ball with bandits running around it can work to scout and snipe the tix.
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http://zero-k.info/wiki/BalanceGuidelinesquote:
If you do nerf it, be conservative- dont try and over-nerf it just to ensure people stop using it (Then its useless and will get buffed again). |
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Well you have to find the balance (no pun intended). Atm there's people that say it's perfect and people that say it's way too bad. Previously you had people scream op and people say it's pretty good. Sure, the nerf could've been less extreme, but the point was not to make the unit worse overall but to shape its role.
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So I'm pretty sure the sumo's DPS buff is a total of 10. "Sumo: * Now has disruptor beams each does 250 damage and 500 slow damage every 2 seconds (was 60 damage every 0.5 seconds)" Please note that the DPS is 125 per beam right now, the DPS per beam was 120 before. Total difference between the two, 5 per beam. Assuming both beams are shooting at the same thing the DPS difference is 10. Please make an argument about the slow damage if you want to talk about combat ability, although the higher reload now means only a handful of targets can actually be slowed. As far as if the sumo can counter planes I'm actually glad to hear that there is at least one heavy who can handle planes reasonably well; the old heat rays made the sumo anti-assault, anti-skirmish, anti-raider, anti-riot, and anti-heavy.
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No factory actually has a counter to BURROWED ticks/roaches, except to spam units at them- and shieldbot still has the dirtbag. The outlaw is still a better minesweeper than any other unit in the game. The reason the outlaw was at it's old power level is that it was balanced to be able to take out raiders in a 1v1 situation, with no support. We've abandoned this idea, and we want it to require a shield, wreck, building, terrain or other obstacle to tank for it, since it can almost uniquely shoot through all of these things. Some of these balance changes were kind of experimental and half in progress, such as Sumo. You'll recall the outlaw change was made so that people could try it in the test version. I can't speak for the other devs but I didn't actually expect another stable to be made until the new engine version was done... so consider these to be under review. But the changes should be pretty close to a balanced state, the outlaw still has heaps of utility, lets see how a utility-focused outlaw works.
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I don't know if balancing against pyro was taken into account... because the only adjective that spring to mind is "hopeless". No doubt there is some adjustment to do on players side following that nerf, but did you forget about pyros?
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Once again, pyros ruin everything.
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Like EA Games? The solution, incidentally, is to support Sak's "shields deflect flame and gauss" plan.
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